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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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| Cleartheair, would you like to suggest a more proper way of prefacing a quoted newspaper article with a comment? |
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Mon Jul 25, 2011 6:34 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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Police arrest at least one for scrap metal theft at Genesee Towers
Published: Monday, July 25, 2011, 4:45 PM Updated: Monday, July 25, 2011, 4:57 PM
Khalil AlHajal | The Flint Journal By Khalil AlHajal | The Flint Journal
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FLINT, Michigan — Police arrested at least one person for scrap metal theft at Genesee Towers this afternoon., police said.
Several police cruisers were seen outside the building around 4 p.m. Two police vehicles remained 4:30 p.m. while workers prepared to secure the boarded-up lower level.
Police said copper inside the building was being targeted. It was unclear how many were arrested. Police haven''t yet provided more information.
The city took ownership of the building on 1st Street in Downtown Flint last year after losing a lengthy lawsuit. A judge upheld an arbitrator's ruling that the city had to take ownership and pay the former owners for the property.
........................
Could this be because the building was left unsecured after the artsy thing? |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Mon Jul 25, 2011 7:48 pm |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
Could this be because the building was left unsecured after the artsy thing?
Good question for "cleartheair" who has been offering walk-throughs.  |
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Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:05 pm |
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cleartheair
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
00SL2 schreef:
quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
Could this be because the building was left unsecured after the artsy thing?
Good question for "cleartheair" who has been offering walk-throughs.
Everything was fine when I left.
I can imagine any moron with a screw gun could unscrew a piece of plywood, I bet even you could.
Again, what does this have to do with the arts presentation?
Maybe we shouldn't have done the buckham alley fest either, someone could have fell on the uneven alley. |
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Mon Jul 25, 2011 8:40 pm |
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liontamer
F L I N T O I D
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| I'll throw another grenade in the discussion. The workers who helped build the building said at the time of construction that there was a significant amount of honeycombed concrete in the structure. it needs to be core sampled...among other things. |
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Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:56 pm |
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ConcernedCitizen
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
cleartheair schreef:
I was at the towers for the artwalk event, the people drove to the 9th floor and walked up the stairs.
There is NO danger being in Genesee Towers
, any discussion of this building being unsafe is just nonsense.
Let's not waste any time talking about this matter.
cleartheair,
What are your qualifications for building inspections? Do you understand that concrete that looks fine externally can have internal flaws that can cause catastrophic failures at any moment? If you are not a civil or structural engineer, or at least a trained building inspector, your statements are baseless. An engineer would test the structure for non-visible flaws before making a statement to the degree of safety.
quote:
cleartheair schreef:
The parking structure is rough but it is designed to hold hundreds of cars, ...
Do you remember a few years ago, there was a supended walkway in a building that collapsed killing several people. It visibly looked safe, but obviously was not. That structure did not look "rough", it looked safe. Concrete that is looking "rough" has already started to deteriorate. Is it to the degree of being unsafe, that's for the experts and they said "Condemned".
You accused Untanglingwebs of not knowing what she is talking about, but that seems to be a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
The fact is that the building is Condemned. Letting a group of people into that building is a major liability. Can you see the attorneys in court when they sue the city over an injury or death?
Plaintiff's Attorney
: So Mr. Eason, you decided it was alright to let a group of people have an art event in the Towers?
Eason
: Yes, but the building is safe.
Plaintiff's Attorney
: No, the building is Condemned.
Eason
: I know, but even cleartheair said it was safe!
Plaintiff's Attorney
: Are you or cleartheair trained in the science of building inspections, or are either of you engineers with training that would qualify you to make that type of decision?
Eason
: Well, no. But we had them all sign a release of liability.
Plaintiff's Attorney
: Mr. Eason, you really can't be that stupid, or can you. You let people into a condemned structure. Condemned, meaning unsafe. Therefore you knew there was danger and you sill allowed people into that dangerous area. Therefore, the release of liability is worthless.
Judge
:Decision for the plaintiff! City of Flint fined several millions more!
I am just wondering what the City or Mr. Eason got out of this deal to persuade them to let people into a Condemned building for an event? |
_________________
"When people fear their government, there is TYRANNY.
When the government fears the people, there is Liberty"
Thomas Jefferson |
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Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:03 pm |
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cleartheair
F L I N T O I D
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In fact I am qualified, I need not present my credentials to you, as this is not any type of official forum.
I have heard a million stories such as this, my favorite is the towers is built on swamp land and is sinking, but as anyone familiar to this type of structure knows the piers are taken down to bedrock.
Liontamer, If someone knows of voids in the pour, get their number, as they will be held liable for not reporting it, this building is around 40 years old and compaction equipment was not as sophisticated as it is today.
As a comparison, all of the GM post and beam buildings that were built in the teens and twenties have never collapsed, this just does not happen in this type of structure; maybe you could site an example.
The Hyatt walkways collapsed because the architects designed a suspension system the contractor could not fabricate so the contractor substituted bolts and washers that slipped because of the live load brought on by a party and brought one walkway crashing onto the other, this is not the same thing.
For lay people, watch TV shows of building implosions and you will see how hard it is to actually take down even a severely damaged building.
The building is condemned because of the lack of elevators and potentially crumbling façade panels.
As for your Perry Mason script, I suggest you submit for Hollywood fantasy. |
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Thu Aug 04, 2011 11:46 am |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
cleartheair schreef:
In fact I am qualified, I need not present my credentials to you, as this is not any type of official forum.
(snip)
The building is condemned because of the lack of elevators and potentially crumbling façade panels.
What about the water damage?
Seems you shouldn't be ashamed to present your credentials if you do in fact have any. Or are you the one who condemned it and you're trying to save face to represent the opposing point of view now? |
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Thu Aug 04, 2011 5:28 pm |
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ConcernedCitizen
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
cleartheair schreef:
In fact I am qualified, I need not present my credentials to you, as this is not any type of official forum.
No, you do not need to post your credentials to post here, but it would be interesting to hear what your credentials you have.
quote:
cleartheair schreef:
I have heard a million stories such as this, my favorite is the towers is built on swamp land and is sinking, but as anyone familiar to this type of structure knows the piers are taken down to bedrock.
That just means the pilings under the building were on secure footing. That does not translate to meaning the rest of the building is safe.
quote:
cleartheair schreef:
As a comparison, all of the GM post and beam buildings that were built in the teens and twenties have never collapsed, this just does not happen in this type of structure; maybe you could site an example.
Sorry, I am not familiar with the GM buildings that you are siting. I have some experience in the area, but make no claim to be an expert as you have done.
quote:
cleartheair schreef:
The Hyatt walkways collapsed because the architects designed a suspension system the contractor could not fabricate so the contractor substituted bolts and washers that slipped because of the live load brought on by a party and brought one walkway crashing onto the other, this is not the same thing.
Assuming you are correct, I stand corrected. It was a hardware issue, not a concrete failure.
quote:
cleartheair schreef:
For lay people, watch TV shows of building implosions and you will see how hard it is to actually take down even a severely damaged building.
Here I have to agree with you wholeheartedly. If you have tried to remove any type of concrete with reinforcing rods or beams, it is a major undertaking, even when the concrete is severely deteriorated.
quote:
cleartheair schreef:
The building is condemned because of the lack of elevators and
potentially crumbling façade panels
.
cleartheair, you just supported my point. If one of those panels had fallen and injured or killed somebody, the city would have been held liable for allowing the art group into the building.
quote:
cleartheair schreef:
As for your Perry Mason script, I suggest you submit for Hollywood fantasy.
Do you really think I have a career in Hollywood fantasy? OK, I might have got a little overdramatic, but I was just trying to make a point. Correctly or incorrectly, the building is listed as condemned. If anybody had been injured due to the condition of the building, the city would have been liable. In our litigious society, it is a risk that our city cannot afford to take. I think you could agree to that statement. |
_________________
"When people fear their government, there is TYRANNY.
When the government fears the people, there is Liberty"
Thomas Jefferson |
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Thu Aug 04, 2011 7:14 pm |
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cleartheair
F L I N T O I D
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What water damage are you referring to? There is little evidence of that.
As another example, a couple years ago, the parking ramp on the river had the main beam completely gone, missing, the concrete was gone, and all the cables in the beam were completely exposed. Now this is a heavily used parking ramp, it was in this condition for until someone finally put some temporary repair posts, the ramp did not collapse, although it should of. This exposure to a lawsuit, was there for months, maybe years and no one at the city said anything, forget the floor collapsing, there were huge chunks of concrete falling directly over the drive at the entrance. Not one person said anything about that. This is a city owned ramp. Moreover, before you complain, prefabricated decks use pre-tensioned cable instead of rebar.
This is just sour grapes with you guys and has no basis in reality. My last word on this subject is that the barricade is far more dangerous, it blocks vision of the intersection and is a traffic hazard, it is a matter of time until someone is injured in that intersection, and a lawsuit is brought against the city. |
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Fri Aug 05, 2011 3:54 am |
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shermanator6594
F L I N T O I D
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| What is the law on entering the Genessee tower? Its open to be able to get inside, and I was thinking about looking around in there, but would it be breaking the law if i entered? Is there certain permission i need to be able to go in there or can i just walk in? |
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Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:47 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Shermanator- You would most likely be arrested for tresspassing if someone observed you entering the building.
I remember a recent call about someone being in the building and police were dispatched. The city is in violation of their own ordinances if the building is open to the public. |
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Thu Nov 15, 2012 6:25 am |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
The city is in violation of their own ordinances if the building is open to the public.
How so? Or was the EFM's $1.00 sale of the building rescinded with the recent vote on the EFM law? |
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Thu Nov 15, 2012 7:03 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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There is an ordinance that prohibits a building being open and vacant. Shermanator states the building is unsecured and open. with all of the metal thefts, the city is not protecting the assets of the building and therefore not protecting the citizens.
Just because a building belongs to the public there is no 24 hour access, especially since the building is allegedly condemned.
If the building were demolished, there would probably be a deconstruction phase. |
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Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:21 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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FPO discussed this complaint and state police were observed on the 9th floor where entry had been gained.
Genesee Towers police search closes Harrison Street in downtown Flint
By Gary Ridley | gridley@mlive.com
on December 07, 2012 at 2:50 PM, updated December 07, 2012 at 2:51 PM
Flint police search the now-empty Genesee Towers after a woman reported items being thrown from the building.Gary Ridley | MLive.com
FLINT, MI -- Harrison Street was closed between First and Second streets in downtown Flint Friday, Dec. 7, as police searched the vacant Genesee Towers building.
READ: The history of Genesee Towers
Police say a woman reported that someone may have been throwing items out of the empty building -- the county's tallest.
Items were scattered in Harrison Street, but police were unsure if they came from the Towers.
The 19-story building is scheduled to be demolished after being sold by the city to the Uptown Reinvestment Corp. for $1. |
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Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:57 pm |
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