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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Genesee County officials probe recall effort against Flint Mayor Dayne Walling
Published: Thursday, July 15, 2010, 8:45 AM Updated: Thursday, July 15, 2010, 9:01 AM
Kristin Longley | Flint Journal
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FLINT, Michigan — The Genesee County prosecutor said he will ask police to investigate recent complaints about a recall effort against Flint Mayor Dayne Walling.
The decision comes in response to a letter Tuesday from Genesee County Clerk Michael Carr, who forwarded two complaints to the prosecutor from people claiming they were told the petitions were to keep police and firefighters on the job.
Prosecutor David Leyton said it’s unlikely the investigation will result in criminal charges, but he is looking into whether petition circulators misled people into signing a Walling recall petition.
Dayne Walling
Carr’s letter includes a copy of recall election law, which states the petition circulator must certify that “signatures appearing on the petition were not obtained through fraud, deceit or misrepresentation.” The law then says a person who knowingly makes a false statement is guilty of a misdemeanor.
Recall organizer David Davenport said he was aware of the complaints but does not believe any petition circulators misrepresented the petition’s purpose.
He said Walling is being recalled because of police and fire layoffs, and it’s their goal to get public safety restored if Walling is recalled.
“People definitely know as they read the petition that it’s a recall petition for the mayor,” he said. “There is no misleading there. He is being recalled because he laid them off.”
Walling said he’s not surprised there are accusations of “questionable activities” in the recall effort. He said he continues to be focused on the city’s challenges, including public safety.
“I trust the legal and judicial authorities will make sure these questionable activities are addressed,” he said.
Carr said he’s referred only a couple of recall election complaints to the prosecutor’s office over the past 30 years or so.
“It’s unusual to get them (complaints) where they’re as specific as these are and rare that they’re about misleading people,” he said.
According to Carr’s letter, a man claimed petition circulators asked him to sign a petition calling for maintaining the current level of police and firefighters. When he read the petition, he discovered it was a petition to recall Walling.
The letter also details a complaint received a week earlier from a woman who said petition circulators asked her to sign a petition to get laid-off police and firefighters back on the job.
Flint Township resident Marcie Hemgesberg said she filed a complaint about the recall after being asked to sign a petition to bring back laid-off police and firefighters.
Hemgesberg, a self-described Walling supporter, said she’s not against the recall itself but doesn’t want it “based on lies and deceit.”
“If (a recall) is the will of the people, then so be it,” she said. “That’s their will. But as soon as I found out they were using language like that ... then that really set me off.”
Leyton said police will have to investigate the complaints to determine whether probable cause exists that a crime has been committed — not an easy feat in this case, he said.
The letter from the clerk’s office does not identify the petition circulators, and it will be hard to get sufficient evidence, he said.
Even if an investigation determines that petition circulators told people the petition is to call back police and firefighters, those spoken words when taken with the language on the petition may not be a misrepresentation, he said.
“That’s something I’d have to determine if we were to get to that point, and that’s highly unlikely,” he said. “The person signing the recall petition should read it before they sign it.” |
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Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:16 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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And yet complaints about dead people registering and voting go unanswered!
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Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:19 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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FlintCityMole
F L I N T O I D
From Marcie:
The past week has been quite eventful. There has been a recall petition going around against Flint's Mayor Dayne Walling. People with brains realize this is a waste of time and tax payers' money; others think it's completely justified despite there being a new election in a year. By the time their signatures go through and the election is set, and IF the mayor was actually recalled, the mayor would only be out of office a few months before the new election. WASTE!
So, I was playing around on FB the other day when I saw a friend post about how he was approached downtown by 3 petitioners all at separate times stating that if he signed the petitions it would bring back police and fire fighters. They stated nothing about the recall. When my friend looked at the petition it stated it was to recall Mayor Walling. That set me off.
So off I go downtown with my cell phone in tow. I located a petitioner on the sidewalk and park next to him. I turned my cell phone video camera on and stepped out of my car. Here's the convo, although it's the best to my recollection. If anyone wants to see the video they'll have to call me.
Him: Are you a registered voter?
Me: Yeah, I am.
Him: Are you a citizen of Flint?
Me: Yeah, why? What's going on?
Him: This is a petition to bring back our police officers, fire fighters, and sanitation workers.
Me: Oh, okay. (I took the petition in hand) What is this?
Him: Oh, it's a recall petition on Mayor Walling.
Me: But you're saying this is to bring back police officers and fire fighters. You do realize that by recalling the Mayor you're not actually bringing back police officers and fire fighters, right? I mean, this seems to be what you're telling people.
Him: Yes, that's what I was told to say.
Me: Who told you to say this?
Him: David Davenport
And from there I informed him it is defrauding the citizens of Flint and can ruin the campaign.
THIS IS NOT RIGHT! SHAME ON ANYONE INVOLVED IN THIS FALSE CAMPAIGN!
Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:57 pm
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
No one should sign a petition without first reading it and understanding its contents. Anyone with an ounce of intelligence isn't going to sign based on what the petition carrier says but on what is written in the petition.
Mole, from Marcie to whom? Did Marcie ask you to post this in public forum, or give her permission to do so?
Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:23 pm
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
OOSL2 is right and the issue of fraud in what petitioners allegedly say has been in court already. Read what you sign. These individuals may believe that Walling has allocated the budget in such a way so as to eliminate officers that did not have to be laid off. Trash is back and so are fire fighters. Walling indicated police could return if they gave in to his demands. No one will risk their life for $9 an hour while he pays his cronies handsomely!
Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:43 pm
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
Oral arguments in a federal lawsuit charging MCRI and the State of Michigan with violating the Voting Rights Act of 1965 were heard on August 17, 2006 with attorneys presenting their closing arguments on the morning of August 18, 2006. The case was heard by U.S. District Court Judge Arthur Tarnow, who promised to rule on the matter by September 8, 2006, to give officials enough time to print up the ballot. During the first day of the hearing, hundreds of protesters picketed outside the courthouse chanting among other things, "Racist fraud, hell no! MCRI has got to go!"[8][9] The lawsuit was filed by Operation King's Dream, Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, Detroit City Council, American-Arab Anti Discrimination Committee, Michigan Legislative Black Caucus, Keep the Vote No Takover, AFSCME Locals 207, 312, and 2920, and UAW 2200 as well as several individual voters.[10] Michigan Governor Jennifer Granholm submitted an amicus brief in support of the plaintiffs.[11]
On August 29, 2006, the case was decided with Judge Tarnow, a Democratic judicial appointee, refusing to remove the initiative from the ballot.[7] However, Judge Tarnow declared that "MCRI engaged in systematic voter fraud by telling voters that were signing a petition supporting affirmative action." However, because the case was not decided on these grounds, this statement is legally characterized as "dicta"--judicial commentary that is not relevant to the outcome of a case. Tarnow also found the testimony of Jennifer Gratz (MCRI's executive director) in the court to be evasive and misleading. His stated reason for refusing an injunction to remove the MCRI from the ballot was the MCRI "targeted all Michigan voters for deception without regard to race." He ruled that the Voting Rights Act was not violated because it "is not a general anti-voter fraud statute, but rather prohibits practices which result in unequal access to the political process because of race."
Luke Massie, national co-chair of the Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration, and Immigrant Rights & Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary (BAMN) announced that the plaintiffs would appeal Tarnow's decision to the U.S. 6th Circuit Court of Appeals, saying "It makes no sense to conclude there was fraud and allow the vote to go forward." The 6th Circuit rejected the appeal in mid-September [12].
[edit] Voting and Poll Results
On November 27, 2006, Proposal 2 was certified officially by the Michigan Secretary of State to have passed by a margin of 58% to 42% (2,141,010 "Yes" votes to 1,555,691 "No" votes)[13]. The last reported poll of October 15, by The Detroit News, showed MCRI to have up to a 50-41 lead. In another Free Press-Local 4 Michigan poll conducted by Selzer & Co. Inc. of Des Moines between October 8 to October 11 of 643 likely voters, it was shown that 41% were in favor of the MCRI, while 44% opposed the measure, and 15% of the voter poll were undecided. The poll had a margin of error of 3.9% making the poll a statistical dead-heat. Another poll, from mid-September 2006, showed MCRI was up 48-37 with 15% undecided, with the pollster admitting that his previous polls had not used the exact language of the proposal until the Sept. poll. The entire polling process highlighted an ongoing debate about the scientific value of modern phone polling on questions of race or controversial social issues where the polled members of the public may be "embarrassed" by social desirability bias to give a truthful response about their intended vote for fear that they will be identified. The effect, which was predicted by several Michigan political consultants and even some pollsters themselves, represents a new concern in polling accuracy.
[edit] Board of Canvassers Meeting
In July 2005, the Michigan State Board of Canvassers declined to certify the MCRI proposal for Michigan's November 2006 ballot after hearing allegations that a significant number of signatures were obtained by telling supporters of affirmative action that the petition was likewise, in support of affirmative action. Counter-allegations were made by MCRI supporters that the allegations were fabricated and that the Board of Canvassers' decision-process itself was being improperly influenced by politics because Michigan Democratic Party Chairman Mark Brewer was "giving orders" to the two Democrat-appointed members of the Board, and backed up by the linked videotape shot by MCRI Treasurer and publisher Chetly Zarko.[14] Despite the deadlocked vote by the Canvassers and their inability to certify the petition as a result, in October of the same year the Michigan Court of Appeals ordered the board to certify the petitions.
On December 14, 2005, in Lansing, Michigan, while attempting to comply with that court order to certify the petitions, the board's four members were scheduled to make the final vote to certify the petitions for the November ballot. However, the meeting attended by hundreds of Detroit high school students. The crowd began to shout "No voter fraud," until they became so loud that the members left the room adjourning until 2pm. Chanting, "They say Jim Crow! We say hell no!," the emotion-surged crowd of students continued until a table was overturned in the commotion and the Lansing police came in to control the situation. Opponents of MCRI labeled their own conduct "civil disobedience" while proponents argued it crossed the line into outright violence and intentional intimidation.[15] Video of the situation can be seen here.[16]
After the protest, the election panel again failed to certify the petitions with a vote of 2-1, falling short of the required three votes. Republican board members Katherine Degrow and Lyn Banks voted in favor with Democrats Paul Mitchell voting no and Doyle O'Connor not voting.
The meeting received considerable media attention because of the protest. In the months following the controversial board meeting, both Mitchell and O'Connor resigned from the board and were fined $250 on contempt of court charges.[17] O'Connor later testified against the MCRI at the August 17 federal court hearing, relaying how he had witnessed two African-American women circulating the anti-affirmative action petition in Detroit telling signers that it was in support of affirmative action. Proponents counter this claim by arguing that O'Connor, as a member of the Board of Canvassers, had failed to offer this testimony during Board meetings and waited until after the Board had decided and a lawsuit begun to relay his alleged testimony. Proponents suggest that O'Connor had a clear conflict of interest as a first-hand witness, and that he unethically failed to relay that information to the rest of the board and to MCRI officials and recuse himself from the decision-making process, and that his testimony as a result is simply not credible given that he waited so long to relay it.
Committee, MCRI (2004-2006). "Official Ballot Language". The Michigan Civil Rights Initiative Committee. http://www.michigancivilrights.org/ballotlanguage.html.
^ Egan, Paul (January 20, 2007). "High court slams door on delay of Prop 2". The Detroit News. http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070120/SCHOOLS/701200399.
^ Core, Harold (June 9, 2006). "Michigan Civil Rights Commission Calling on Supreme Court and Attorney General to Take Action Regarding MCRI Fraud". Michigan Department of Civil Roghts. http://www.michigan.gov/mdcr/0,1607,7-138--145077--,00.html.
^ Bernstein, Mark. Mohammed Abdrabboh and George Wirth.Michigan Civil Rights Commission June 7, 2006 memo. "michigan.gov" (website).
^ Michigan Civil Rights Initiative Committee.Report on Abuse of Power by Michigan Civil Rights Commission memo. "michigancivilrights.org" (website).
^ United States Court of Appeals for the Sixth Circuit.Case No. 05-2258, Kilpatrick et al. vs. Land et al.. "bamn.com" (website).
^ a b Driver, Shanta; Luke Massie (August 30, 2006). "Judge Tarnow finds: "the MCRI engaged in systematic voter fraud" – refuses injunction". BAMN. http://www.bamn.com/doc/2006/060830-prel-tarnow-refuses.asp.
^ Committee, MCRI (August 17, 2006). "Radical Pro-Racial Preference group Protests Outside Federal Courthouse in Detroit". The Michigan Civil Rights Initiative Committee. http://michigancivilrights.org/bamnvideo.html.
^ news, Action (2006). "Article". WXYZ TV. http://www.detnow.com/wxyz/nw_local_news/article/0,2132,WXYZ_15924_4923883,00.html.
^ TARNOW, ARTHUR (July 17, 2006). "OPERATION KING'S DREAM et al. vs. Connerly and Gratz" (PDF). UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN SOUTHERN DIVISION. http://www.bamn.com/doc/2006/060718-brf-inj-fedct.pdf.
Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:20 pm
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
Quotes from Judge Arthur Tarnow's Decision
Operation King's Dream, et al. v. Connerly, et al.
29 August, 2006
The Court finds that the MCRI engaged in systematic voter fraud by telling voters that they were signing a petition supporting affirmative action. …
If the proposal eventually passes, it will be stained by well-documented acts of fraud and deception that the defendants, as a matter of fact, have not credibly denied. …
The People of Michigan should also be concerned by the indifference exhibited by the state agencies who could have investigated and addressed MCRI's actions but failed to do so. With the exception of the Michigan Civil Rights Commission, the record shows that the state has demonstrated an almost complete institutional indifference to the credible allegations of voter fraud raised by Plaintiffs. If the institutions established by the People of Michigan, including the Michigan Courts, Board of State Canvassers, Secretary of State, Attorney General, and Bureau of Elections, had taken the allegations of voter fraud seriously, then it is quite possible that this case would not have come to federal court. …
Gratz was either ignorant of the state's failure to investigate the plaintiff's allegations, or that she deliberately lied by stating that the Bureau of Elections had investigated those claims. …
In reviewing Gratz's testimony as a whole, it is difficult to determine where the line between willful ignorance and deliberate deception could be drawn. …
Unfortunately, her lack of clarity and forthrightness seems typical of the MCRI's approach, which is best characterized by the use of deception and connivance to confuse the issues in the hopes of getting the proposal on the ballot. …
The Court finds that MCRI and its circulators engaged in a pattern of voter fraud by deceiving voters into believing that the petition supported affirmative action. At the evidentiary hearing and oral argument conducted in this Court, neither the state defendants nor the MCRI defendants presented an adequate defense either to the facts set forth in the Michigan Civil Rights Commission's Report or to the testimony elicited during the evidentiary hearing. The evidence overwhelmingly favors a finding that the MCRI defendants engaged in voter fraud. …
Jennifer Gratz's confusion at the evidentiary hearing as to the purpose of the MCRI's proposal supports the Court's conclusion that the MCRI deliberately encouraged voter fraud and did nothing to remedy such fraud once it occurred. …
Precisely because of the state's indifference to valid allegations of voter fraud, this case has fallen through the cracks and reached federal court. …
[Emphasis added.]
letters@bamn.com
313-438-3748 Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration & Immigrant Rights
And Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary (BAMN)
Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:27 pm
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
Sponsored Links For: Mortgage Fraud, Tax Fraud, How to Fraud, Business Fraud
MCRI Petition Fraud - 2006 - C:\$LOIS\Letterhead\letterhead ...
allegations of voter fraud perpetrated by the Michigan Civil Rights Initiative ... fraudulent gathering of petition signatures. In Michigan Civil Rights ...
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/PetitionFraudreport_162009_7.pdf - - Cached - Similar pages
Groups allege petition fraud in push for mayoral control of ...
Jun 15, 2010 ... "This is the same type of voter fraud that was used by Ward Connerly to place ... the referendum abolishing affirmative in Michigan, on the ballot. ... organized a press conference yesterday to detail the allegations. ...
http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/06/activist_group_alleges_petitio.html - 63k - Cached - Similar pages
Ward Connerly - STOP BALLOT FRAUD
Despite the charges of voter fraud, Arizona Senator John McCain, ... In Nebraska , Connerly has faced charges that petition collectors collected ... Court cases attempting to overturn affirmative action at the University of Michigan. ...
http://www.stopballotfraud.org/merchant/ward_connerly - 23k - Cached - Similar pages
Michigan Civil Rights Initiative - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The crowd began to shout "No voter fraud," until they became so loud that the ... the Commission had previously alleged in its June 2006 fraud-allegation report ... On Thursday, February 15, BAMN submitted 2000 petitions to the Board of ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_Civil_Rights_Initiative - 144k - Cached - Similar pages
Quotes from Judge Tarnow's decision in Operation King's Dream, et ...
Aug 29, 2006 ... The Court finds that the MCRI engaged in systematic voter fraud by telling voters that they were signing a petition supporting affirmative action. ... to the credible allegations of voter fraud raised by Plaintiffs. ... either to the facts set forth in the Michigan Civil Rights Commission's Report ...
http://www.bamn.com/doc/2006/060830-tarnow-decision-quotes.asp - 13k - Cached - Similar pages
Colorado Petition Draws Charges of Deception - New York Times
Apr 1, 2008 ... In 2006 in Michigan, a federal judge criticized Mr. Connerly's supporters as engaging in fraud by telling voters they were signing petitions ...
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/01/us/01denver.html - - Cached - Similar pages
Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:33 pm
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
The bottom line is it does not matter if paid signature collectors are deceptive-the person signing is responsible for reading what they sign. I have had deceitful petitions presented to me in the past, but after reading them I did not sign,
Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:01 am |
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Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:24 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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ONCE AGAIN IT IS THE KILDEE CLAN
Topic: Is it illegal or just dirty?
Goto page 1, 2 Next
Author Post
Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
Again last night as we stepped out of our Flint DNA meeting we were approached by another petition hawker, this time in front of 5 witnesses from our group, the hawker started with....”Do you want to sign a petition to bring Flint firemen back to work?”.....Yet it was a petition to recall the Mayor. This has become more than just coincidence. This makes the fourth time I have personally been approached in this way. Have these folks been schooled on the language they are using or is this their own ploy to pad their sheets with "names for payment"? Either way, this unanswered question has place those behind the petition drive into a bad light.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone else but myself and my pro-Flint agenda….. but…. The wasted energy in backing a negative position will always backfire on those behind it. Look, don’t back a negative, if you want to show leadership, back a positive and others will follow. Tell me something good you’re “doing” (not just supporting) and I will be drawn to the light of positive change. Go negative and it will cover you in darkness.
Heck, what are you all fighting for anyways? Political power over Flint? That’s like two adolescent teenage boys fighting over an ugly girl. Either way they both lose!
P.S. when I directed this question to Nick Singelis: “did you know or did you direct those petition hawkers to use those misleading opening sentences? His reply…. He booted me off his facebook page.
P.P.S. Yesterday, a young lady tested one of the petition hawkers while video recording the encounter. Bottom line: The hawker admitted that they we’re told by Dave Davenport what to say.
P.P.P.S. I hear they're hitting the 1st and 2nd wards today. Good luck!
Transcript:
Him: Are you a registered voter?
Me: Yeah, I am.
Him: Are you a citizen of Flint?
Me: Yeah, why? What's going on?
Him: This is a petition to bring back our police officers, fire fighters, and sanitation workers.
Me: Oh, okay. (I took the petition in hand) What is this?
Him: Oh, it's a recall petition on Mayor Walling.
Me: But you're saying this is to bring back police officers and fire fighters. You do realize that by recalling the Mayor you're not actually bringing back police officers and fire fighters, right? I mean, this seems to be what you're telling people.
Him: Yes, that's what I was told to say.
Me: Who told you to say this?
Him: David Davenport
Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:31 pm
TheDonSupporter
F L I N T O I D
Stephen James ofcourse you support Walling because your wife is a Kildee. The Kildee family is a big good ole boy network in this town and you have to speak up for the mayor.
Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:07 pm
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen James schreef:
I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone else but myself and my pro-Flint agenda….
Transcript:
Him: Are you a registered voter?
Me: Yeah, I am.
Him: Are you a citizen of Flint?
Me: Yeah, why? What's going on?
Him: This is a petition to bring back our police officers, fire fighters, and sanitation workers.
Me: Oh, okay. (I took the petition in hand) What is this?
Him: Oh, it's a recall petition on Mayor Walling.
Me: But you're saying this is to bring back police officers and fire fighters. You do realize that by recalling the Mayor you're not actually bringing back police officers and fire fighters, right? I mean, this seems to be what you're telling people.
Him: Yes, that's what I was told to say.
Me: Who told you to say this?
Him: David Davenport
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen, if you're not speaking for anyone but yourself why have you not credited the participants and source of the transcript you have quoted?
Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:27 pm
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
Stephen, what is the Flint DNA?
Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:28 pm
Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
quote:
TheDonSupporter schreef:
Stephen James ofcourse you support Walling because your wife is a Kildee. The Kildee family is a big good ole boy network in this town and you have to speak up for the mayor.
Dear DonSupporter, Please be careful not to break your neck jumping to conclusion. Let’s get you up to speed so that you can make accusations about me with a semblance of intelligent.
First off. I just return to Flint after 26 years away and have no idea of the political climate here and frankly I don’t care. I live here and just want to be part of making things better. I have met Dayne Walling a couple of times at some grand opening in downtown Flint but have no real relationship or business with him. I do see that he has a tough job and I am pulling for him just as I would any of our Mayors.
Second, I made every effort to report the facts as best I could (as a good citizen should) without jumping to conclusions. I reminded everyone that those hawking the petition maybe using their own words and not the words of those behind the petition. It was not till I questioned those involved and those in charge of petition filing and through the on the street interview done with one of the hawkers that I as well as others found the names behind this inappropriate behavior.
Third, I have met Nick Singelis two times and on both occasions found him to be an intelligent, friendly, helpful person, I even attended a seminar on social media he produced and attended a Flint Chamber of Commerce meeting that he was involved with last winter.
Fourth: I have never met David Davenport (To my knowledge) and have no idea who he is, what he does or what he’s done.
Lastly, I am in love with a woman with the last name Kildee. She is her own woman as I am my own man. The Kildee family is full of loving, kind and honest people, just like I hope your family is. So dear donsupporter, if you have a bone to pick with me then be a person willing to address me and not include my actions or opinion as being subject to others approval just as I will not disparage you for the company you keep.
Oh and finally, if I ever catch you saying anything, I mean even kind words about the woman I love I will hunt you down like a dog and kick your teeth in. See, I don’t have a political bone in my body!
Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:07 am
Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
00SL2 schreef:
Stephen, what is the Flint DNA?
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See: Recall Fraud, you decide.
Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:08 am
Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
00SL2 schreef:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Stephen James schreef:
I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone else but myself and my pro-Flint agenda….
Transcript:
Him: Are you a registered voter?
Me: Yeah, I am.
Him: Are you a citizen of Flint?
Me: Yeah, why? What's going on?
Him: This is a petition to bring back our police officers, fire fighters, and sanitation workers.
Me: Oh, okay. (I took the petition in hand) What is this?
Him: Oh, it's a recall petition on Mayor Walling.
Me: But you're saying this is to bring back police officers and fire fighters. You do realize that by recalling the Mayor you're not actually bringing back police officers and fire fighters, right? I mean, this seems to be what you're telling people.
Him: Yes, that's what I was told to say.
Me: Who told you to say this?
Him: David Davenport
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Stephen, if you're not speaking for anyone but yourself why have you not credited the participants and source of the transcript you have quoted?
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Dear OOSL2: See Recall fraud? You decide.
Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:10 am
Crowfeeder
F L I N T O I D
I remember some years ago when the Carry Concealed Pistol law in Michigan was in doubt.Petition gatherers were paid by an anti gun group to come to Flint ,and stand in front of tha main post office to aquire signitures.They would ask people leaving the post office if they were registered voters in the State of Michigan and if so would they sign a petition to help keep guns out of our schools.The petitions they held of course had nothing to do with schools but with the new gun law.I found their actions deceptive and reprehensible .
To be consistant,although I am for the recall of this Mayor, I find that any tactic of deception to aquire signitures reprehensible.
Mayor Walling has made numerous political enemies in Flint,and has disgruntled a large portion of ordinary voters , myself included.Flint is burning,decent people are struck by stray bullets here every week,in some parts of town you take your life in your hands just stepping outside.Graffitti is sprayed on churches and crack houses are within a stones throw of the empty Flint Central.If this isn't enough for a recall,let Walling stay.
Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:10 am
twotap
F L I N T O I D
When that concealed carry law was in the making it sure exposed some idiot politicans, higher up law enforcement and local prosecutors with their moronic statements and predictions about the now very successful law.
_________________
half the Country isn't even paying taxes yet they can still receive a "refund" of my money that I did pay in. Who came up with that plan??
The motto of the Democrat party is:
"If it's not broke, fix it until it is."
Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:46 am
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
The bottom line is it does not matter if paid signature collectors are deceptive-the person signing is responsible for reading what they sign. I have had deceitful petitions presented to me in the past, but after reading them I did not sign,
Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:03 am
monlynn810
F L I N T O I D
It very much matters if petition canvassers are being deceptive!
Whether or not you agree with the petition, lying is a morally bankrupt thing to do, legal or not, plain and simple.
It's laughable the way some people will twist themselves into pretzels to support falsehoods by people they agree with.
Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:13 pm
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
monlynn810 schreef:
It very much matters if petition canvassers are being deceptive!
Whether or not you agree with the petition, lying is a morally bankrupt thing to do, legal or not, plain and simple.
It's laughable the way some people will twist themselves into pretzels to support falsehoods by people they agree with.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the other hand, think about some of the people who have circulated petitions without a political bone in their body, with no knowledge about politics or the issues at all, simply for the dollars the signatures they can obtain will bring. They likely will say what they are told to because they get paid to do it. Would being hungry make a person morally bankrupt just for saying what they've been paid to say? I'm not saying the ones circulating the petitions being discussed in this thread are being paid but it has occurred in the past.
Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:07 pm
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
untanglingwebs schreef:
The bottom line is it does not matter if paid signature collectors are deceptive-the person signing is responsible for reading what they sign. I have had deceitful petitions presented to me in the past, but after reading them I did not sign,
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The issue is whether the courts will act if the petition signatures are fraudulently obtained and previous ruling have indicated they won't. Morality doesn't seem to matter.
Tuesday Walling and Kincaid were meeting with a political consultant from Lansing to try to prevent the recalls.
Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:23 am
TheDonSupporter
F L I N T O I D
Mr. James - Kildee,
When you got married you now have a dog in the fight.
You now are a blue dog democrat and you are living with a Kildee.
The Kildee's love any democrat that helps further the family agenda. |
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Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:30 am |
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Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
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July 26th: FLINT, Michigan — More complaints have been lodged about a recall effort against Flint Mayor Dayne Walling.
Former state Rep. Jack Minore, D-Flint, and the Rev. Seon Thompson of Refuge Temple Church in Mt. Morris Township filed complaints with the Genesee County Clerk’s Office.
They claimed recall petition circulators told them the recall petition is for more police and firefighters.
County Clerk Michael Carr has forwarded the complaints and previous similar complaints to Genesee County Prosecutor David Leyton, who has said he would ask police to investigate the complaints for possible violation of recall election law.
Election law states petition circulators must certify that “signatures appearing on the petition were not obtained through fraud, deceit or misrepresentation.”
Recall organizer David Davenport has said petition circulators are not misleading the public, especially since the petition states it is for the purpose of recalling Walling from office.
The petition says Walling should be recalled for laying off police and fire personnel.
Davenport has said he expects the recall effort to have enough signatures to make it to the ballot.
[quote="untanglingwebs"][b]ONCE AGAIN IT IS THE KILDEE CLAN[/b]
Topic: Is it illegal or just dirty?
Goto page 1, 2 Next
Author Post
Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
Again last night as we stepped out of our Flint DNA meeting we were approached by another petition hawker, this time in front of 5 witnesses from our group, the hawker started with....”Do you want to sign a petition to bring Flint firemen back to work?”.....Yet it was a petition to recall the Mayor. This has become more than just coincidence. This makes the fourth time I have personally been approached in this way. Have these folks been schooled on the language they are using or is this their own ploy to pad their sheets with "names for payment"? Either way, this unanswered question has place those behind the petition drive into a bad light.
I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone else but myself and my pro-Flint agenda….. but…. The wasted energy in backing a negative position will always backfire on those behind it. Look, don’t back a negative, if you want to show leadership, back a positive and others will follow. Tell me something good you’re “doing” (not just supporting) and I will be drawn to the light of positive change. Go negative and it will cover you in darkness.
Heck, what are you all fighting for anyways? Political power over Flint? That’s like two adolescent teenage boys fighting over an ugly girl. Either way they both lose!
P.S. when I directed this question to Nick Singelis: “did you know or did you direct those petition hawkers to use those misleading opening sentences? His reply…. He booted me off his facebook page.
P.P.S. Yesterday, a young lady tested one of the petition hawkers while video recording the encounter. Bottom line: The hawker admitted that they we’re told by Dave Davenport what to say.
P.P.P.S. I hear they're hitting the 1st and 2nd wards today. Good luck!
Transcript:
Him: Are you a registered voter?
Me: Yeah, I am.
Him: Are you a citizen of Flint?
Me: Yeah, why? What's going on?
Him: This is a petition to bring back our police officers, fire fighters, and sanitation workers.
Me: Oh, okay. (I took the petition in hand) What is this?
Him: Oh, it's a recall petition on Mayor Walling.
Me: But you're saying this is to bring back police officers and fire fighters. You do realize that by recalling the Mayor you're not actually bringing back police officers and fire fighters, right? I mean, this seems to be what you're telling people.
Him: Yes, that's what I was told to say.
Me: Who told you to say this?
Him: David Davenport
Fri Jul 02, 2010 3:31 pm
TheDonSupporter
F L I N T O I D
Stephen James ofcourse you support Walling because your wife is a Kildee. The Kildee family is a big good ole boy network in this town and you have to speak up for the mayor.
Fri Jul 02, 2010 7:07 pm
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
quote:
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Stephen James schreef:
I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone else but myself and my pro-Flint agenda….
Transcript:
Him: Are you a registered voter?
Me: Yeah, I am.
Him: Are you a citizen of Flint?
Me: Yeah, why? What's going on?
Him: This is a petition to bring back our police officers, fire fighters, and sanitation workers.
Me: Oh, okay. (I took the petition in hand) What is this?
Him: Oh, it's a recall petition on Mayor Walling.
Me: But you're saying this is to bring back police officers and fire fighters. You do realize that by recalling the Mayor you're not actually bringing back police officers and fire fighters, right? I mean, this seems to be what you're telling people.
Him: Yes, that's what I was told to say.
Me: Who told you to say this?
Him: David Davenport
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Stephen, if you're not speaking for anyone but yourself why have you not credited the participants and source of the transcript you have quoted?
Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:27 pm
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
Stephen, what is the Flint DNA?
Fri Jul 02, 2010 8:28 pm
Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
[quote="TheDonSupporter"]Stephen James ofcourse you support Walling because your wife is a Kildee. The Kildee family is a big good ole boy network in this town and you have to speak up for the mayor.[/quote]
Dear DonSupporter, Please be careful not to break your neck jumping to conclusion. Let’s get you up to speed so that you can make accusations about me with a semblance of intelligent.
First off. I just return to Flint after 26 years away and have no idea of the political climate here and frankly I don’t care. I live here and just want to be part of making things better. I have met Dayne Walling a couple of times at some grand opening in downtown Flint but have no real relationship or business with him. I do see that he has a tough job and I am pulling for him just as I would any of our Mayors.
Second, I made every effort to report the facts as best I could (as a good citizen should) without jumping to conclusions. I reminded everyone that those hawking the petition maybe using their own words and not the words of those behind the petition. It was not till I questioned those involved and those in charge of petition filing and through the on the street interview done with one of the hawkers that I as well as others found the names behind this inappropriate behavior.
Third, I have met Nick Singelis two times and on both occasions found him to be an intelligent, friendly, helpful person, I even attended a seminar on social media he produced and attended a Flint Chamber of Commerce meeting that he was involved with last winter.
Fourth: I have never met David Davenport (To my knowledge) and have no idea who he is, what he does or what he’s done.
Lastly, I am in love with a woman with the last name Kildee. She is her own woman as I am my own man. The Kildee family is full of loving, kind and honest people, just like I hope your family is. So dear donsupporter, if you have a bone to pick with me then be a person willing to address me and not include my actions or opinion as being subject to others approval just as I will not disparage you for the company you keep.
Oh and finally, if I ever catch you saying anything, I mean even kind words about the woman I love I will hunt you down like a dog and kick your teeth in. See, I don’t have a political bone in my body!
Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:07 am
Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
quote:
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00SL2 schreef:
Stephen, what is the Flint DNA?
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See: Recall Fraud, you decide.
Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:08 am
Stephen James
F L I N T O I D
quote:
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00SL2 schreef:
quote:
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Stephen James schreef:
I don’t have a dog in this fight, I’m not speaking on behalf of anyone else but myself and my pro-Flint agenda….
Transcript:
Him: Are you a registered voter?
Me: Yeah, I am.
Him: Are you a citizen of Flint?
Me: Yeah, why? What's going on?
Him: This is a petition to bring back our police officers, fire fighters, and sanitation workers.
Me: Oh, okay. (I took the petition in hand) What is this?
Him: Oh, it's a recall petition on Mayor Walling.
Me: But you're saying this is to bring back police officers and fire fighters. You do realize that by recalling the Mayor you're not actually bringing back police officers and fire fighters, right? I mean, this seems to be what you're telling people.
Him: Yes, that's what I was told to say.
Me: Who told you to say this?
Him: David Davenport
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Stephen, if you're not speaking for anyone but yourself why have you not credited the participants and source of the transcript you have quoted?
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Dear OOSL2: See Recall fraud? You decide.
Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:10 am
Crowfeeder
F L I N T O I D
I remember some years ago when the Carry Concealed Pistol law in Michigan was in doubt.Petition gatherers were paid by an anti gun group to come to Flint ,and stand in front of tha main post office to aquire signitures.They would ask people leaving the post office if they were registered voters in the State of Michigan and if so would they sign a petition to help keep guns out of our schools.The petitions they held of course had nothing to do with schools but with the new gun law.I found their actions deceptive and reprehensible .
To be consistant,although I am for the recall of this Mayor, I find that any tactic of deception to aquire signitures reprehensible.
Mayor Walling has made numerous political enemies in Flint,and has disgruntled a large portion of ordinary voters , myself included.Flint is burning,decent people are struck by stray bullets here every week,in some parts of town you take your life in your hands just stepping outside.Graffitti is sprayed on churches and crack houses are within a stones throw of the empty Flint Central.If this isn't enough for a recall,let Walling stay.
Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:10 am
twotap
F L I N T O I D
When that concealed carry law was in the making it sure exposed some idiot politicans, higher up law enforcement and local prosecutors with their moronic statements and predictions about the now very successful law.
_________________
half the Country isn't even paying taxes yet they can still receive a "refund" of my money that I did pay in. Who came up with that plan??
The motto of the Democrat party is:
"If it's not broke, fix it until it is."
Sat Jul 03, 2010 7:46 am
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
The bottom line is it does not matter if paid signature collectors are deceptive-the person signing is responsible for reading what they sign. I have had deceitful petitions presented to me in the past, but after reading them I did not sign,
Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:03 am
monlynn810
F L I N T O I D
It very much matters if petition canvassers are being deceptive!
Whether or not you agree with the petition, lying is a morally bankrupt thing to do, legal or not, plain and simple.
It's laughable the way some people will twist themselves into pretzels to support falsehoods by people they agree with.
Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:13 pm
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
quote:
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monlynn810 schreef:
It very much matters if petition canvassers are being deceptive!
Whether or not you agree with the petition, lying is a morally bankrupt thing to do, legal or not, plain and simple.
It's laughable the way some people will twist themselves into pretzels to support falsehoods by people they agree with.
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On the other hand, think about some of the people who have circulated petitions without a political bone in their body, with no knowledge about politics or the issues at all, simply for the dollars the signatures they can obtain will bring. They likely will say what they are told to because they get paid to do it. Would being hungry make a person morally bankrupt just for saying what they've been paid to say? I'm not saying the ones circulating the petitions being discussed in this thread are being paid but it has occurred in the past.
Tue Jul 06, 2010 8:07 pm
untanglingwebs
F L I N T O I D
quote:
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untanglingwebs schreef:
The bottom line is it does not matter if paid signature collectors are deceptive-the person signing is responsible for reading what they sign. I have had deceitful petitions presented to me in the past, but after reading them I did not sign,
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The issue is whether the courts will act if the petition signatures are fraudulently obtained and previous ruling have indicated they won't. Morality doesn't seem to matter.
Tuesday Walling and Kincaid were meeting with a political consultant from Lansing to try to prevent the recalls.
Thu Jul 08, 2010 7:23 am
TheDonSupporter
F L I N T O I D
Mr. James - Kildee,
When you got married you now have a dog in the fight.
You now are a blue dog democrat and you are living with a Kildee.
The Kildee's love any democrat that helps further the family agenda.[/quote] |
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Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:53 am |
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FlintCityMole
F L I N T O I D
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Mayor Walling has been having a lot of meetings lately trying to garner support to fend off the recall. He knows the writing is on the wall and is trying to promise the moon and stars to powerful people that can stand up for him. He is hoping that the Concerned ( Black ) Pastors will back him up and tell the church folk not to vote to recall the embattled mayor.
If the recall is allowed to move forward watch for a Public Relations Campaign in support of Walling. He is having his political appointees work on this during City Hall hours or operation. |
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Tue Jul 27, 2010 2:45 pm |
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