Topic: Dialogue on Public Safety Goto page Previous1, 2, 3, 4, 5Next
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Post
Dave Starr F L I N T O I D
I know a lady that lives in Howard Estates that says a lot of people there are terrified of the gang bangers that are there. She said she's been threatened several times for calling the police. Plus, there's a ministation there.
_________________ I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:59 pm
Adam F L I N T O I D
How terrified are they? Maybe they would feel safer if they had some of these.
Went to the range yesterday to bust some caps. I asked the folks there if business had picked up since the layoffs were announced. Seems to be more people signing up for CPL classes.
_________________ I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:31 am
twotap F L I N T O I D
My friend who manages a large Davison gunstore said sales have been steadly increasing every since THE ONE you know the POTUS who never cast a vote for the 2nd ammendment and hates honest gunowners got to Washington. So see obama has helped the economy like he said he would.
_________________ "If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:45 am
Dave Starr F L I N T O I D
If it's the one I'm thinking of, I try to stay out of there. Too many neat toys.
_________________ I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:15 am
twotap F L I N T O I D
Thats for sure. Remember when the original folks who started it were still running it? My late father and his friend were actually at their shooting range when they got word of the Japs attacking Pearl Harbor. They both enlisted, my dad made it back his friend didnt. I think of that whenever I go to their range which isnt often since I can practice up here for free. I do buy all my firearms from them though, good people.
_________________ "If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:17 am
Dave Starr F L I N T O I D
I have to quit looking at their web site. They list too many M1a's, and I lust after one.
_________________ I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:24 pm
back again F L I N T O I D
no question there are problems there..
_________________ even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:24 pm
munnbreslin F L I N T O I D
Ok to get back to the public safety discussion, I had a few more questions for this forum.
If a major complaint of this public security force has been the lack of officers on patrol (often having a number as low as two, according to this forum), how does an increase to at least nine patrol officers (from 5pm to 1am) increase the danger of the residents of Flint? Wouldn't an increased patrol number decrease crime? And especially if you were garunteed that an officer was in your ward, your ninth of the city at that time, how would crime increase? I'm simply wondering how this all adds up, and how when, if what the posters of this site were accurate in saying that patrols have been as low as two officers at some times, how a 450% increase in patrol officers will cause a dramatic crime increase?
Also, do the current police officers work more than 40 hours a week? I know of countless private-sector jobs that work 50 or even 60 hours a week (this falls more with lawyers, doctors, small business owners), where does the FPD fall in this area?
Finally, does the FPD know that the average salary for a private-sector employee in America is $40,000 a year while the average salary for a governmental employee is $71,000 a year? Why is this ok and why does the department feel that it is not obligated to a 20% pay cut and a benefit cut, when this has become so commonplace in our companies and small businesses?
Thu Feb 25, 2010 7:35 pm
munnbreslin F L I N T O I D
Also, if each officer only works 40 hours a week, at the staffing level of 127 (which is what the department will be at) at any one time there should be, in theory, 30 officiers working. If 9 are on foot patrol, so this is assuming it second shift in this theory, than 21 are left at stations. Lets say 4 are on cruiser patrol at the same time so were down to 17. Now if someone please could tell me how many officers it takes to staff a station, ill say 10. Now with then 7 officers left for backup only, how will this department ,"fail to operate"?
-Please correct me if I am wrong on these assumptions. I would love to know straight facts and figures.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:02 pm
untanglingwebs El Supremo
Munn- Your numbers are shaky and I would believe Bossman before taking your calculations.
Some of the grants are specific, ie the COPs officer must be one called off a layoff and maintained.If we can't meet the terms of the grant, then we must give it back.
Bossman is absolutely right about the south side task forcseonly having two active Flint Police members. From what some council have said, 4 who were to be on the Task Force are on a different shift and not really doing the job required by the grant. Kincaid bragged in a council meeting about the wonders of the task force because they were ticketing abandoned cars, a duty once relegated to lowly PSAs or code enforcement. Somehow I don't see that stopping serious and violent crime.
Has anyone reflected upon the banked annual and sick hours these officers have saved and which must be paid when they are laid off. Employees who don't use their annual hours can cash them in at retirement or layoff time and can run several thousand dollars person. That is why kincaid indicated layoffs wouldn't have that great of an impact. Also because the city is self insured, I am unsure how that impacts the unemployment funding.
I have heard from several sources that Hurley, I believe in May, will no longer pay for banked hours. The city is looking to implement a similar measure in future contracts. If that happens look for an increase in the number of retirements. I understand that about two classes of polices officers are at retirement age or close to that time.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:28 pm
munnbreslin F L I N T O I D
Webs my numbers are give or take ten for the number of current staffers, and I would just like to say that since the South Side task force was instituted, I have seen next to no stores on the journals site or on scanners of 9th ward crimes. It seems to be a success (knock on wood). Also, I would like bossman to comment so we know how many officers it truly takes to run an office.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:34 pm
Bossman F L I N T O I D
Munn, You are not taking into account officers that are on regular days off or sick or on vacation. There are only a couple of officers that are actually assigned to positions inside the station. The others are on the streets. There are also many officers assigned to "specialty units" that do not rountinely respond to 911 radio calls for service. The additional 9 officers are completely pointless if they cut 50. The police department is already grossly understaffed, as is the fire department.
Dayne Walling's Police Cuts will put Police at about 1 officer per every 1,000 residents, which is almost 4x LESS then Detroit's officer to citizens, and 2x less then Saginaw and Lansing
Local Comparisons:
Population Officers Citizens per Officer
Lansing: 113,968 / 250 / [b]455[/b]
Saginaw: 55,620 / 100 / [b]556[/b]
Detroit: 912,062 / 3,290 / [b]277[/b]
Flint 112,900 / 110 / [b]1026[/b]
Out of State Comparisons:
Population Officers Citizens per Officer
Chicago 2,783,726 / 13,400 / [b]207[/b]
Officer totals for Chicago came from Wikipedia
New York 7,322,564 / 35,285 / [b]207[/b]
Officer totals from New York came from Wikipedia
Camden NJ 79,383 / 287 / [b]276[/b]
Officer totals from Camden came from Wikipedia
Of the outstate comparables the only one with a higher violent crime rank is Camden NJ. New York and Chicago weren't even in the top 200 nationally. You can see the officer to citizen ratio. No comparison. Reducing the ranks in Flint is the most short sighted option that Walling could have possibly come up with. Especially considering the fact that his administration has continued to hire and appoint and fivolously spend money while demanding cuts from public safety. These cuts will come at great expense to the citizens of Flint and will create extremely dangerous working conditions for the officers.
Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:32 pm
untanglingwebs El Supremo
Munnbreslin- If I were you I would quit trying to talk public safety with one who
really
knows what he is talking about.
You are trying to justify your faith in Walling and you are only going to look like a fool.
Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:40 am
munnbreslin F L I N T O I D
Webs, I know you would love a debate, but thats not what I'm going for. I cant remember how many times I have said these layoffs are horrible, I'm simply trying to see where the devastation is in numbers. Bossman if you could provide official statistics (how many officers must run a station, how many can work in FPD while not being on patrol, etc.) it would be much appreciated. I'm just confused that even last year when the FPD was cut, crime went down 8.6%. Again, in no way am I trying to be sarcastic, I'm just looking for the numbers to back this apocalyptic scenario.
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