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Domet
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Elias12 schreef:
Where are there logical flaws in simply stating the idea that you think someone is a bad choice to fill a slot?
None, and it wouldn't be a problem if that was all you did. The reality of the situation is that in almost every post you made previous to this page, your arguments
for why
were all based on logical flaws. Hence the argument I have made - your position is not based in reason but rather emotional, knee-jerk reactions. I don't have to pull out my "vocabulary" to show how foolish you have been, I did that for shits and giggles.
quote:
Elias12 schreef:
He is paying off his debts with the future of Flint at stake, and this should not be tolerated.
That is such an emotive statement, again lacking reason. In what ways will putting Donna Poplar in charge of Human Resources put Flint's future at stake? This is still something you have yet to explain which just further adds evidence that your position is flawed by lack of reason.
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Elias12 schreef:
Giving Poplar a second chance will not play out well, people do remember her misdeeds and will be more dismissive of attempts to allegedly remake the city's image.
This isn't a reason, and neither is, "His choice is wrong, simple as that." We aren't children and the age old classic my mother used to drop on me, "Because I said so," doesn't cut it. If you don't have a reason for why you feel that way then you have no argument and, again, are not arguing from reason.
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Elias12 schreef:
So I am glad you picked up a book on logic at a rummage sale but find some other avenue for showing how much of the vocabulary you gleaned from it.
It was a couple courses in college, actually, and the books were sadly more expensive than what they would have cost at a rummage sale. Just the same, you do seem intimidated by logic and in general intelligence. See, I don't really think that I am smarter than you or most people Elias12, but what I do which you clearly are not is use my intellect to try and understand a situation. I'm sorry if you cannot rise above being emotional and irrational to explain your position in an intelligent way, but you shouldn't be lashing out at me for that.
And, once again, you resort to personal attacks to make your arguments. Look at what a silly person you are!
quote:
Elias12 schreef:
As for Poplar being qualified in regards to her having the correct degree,,BRAVO, so are about two dozen other potential candidates for that job who don't have the baggage she has, just go through those resumes for one of those.
Doesn't mean they were better than her. Her record was expunged and the only people hanging onto the old conviction are people who seem to have no other reasons to oppose her. Me? I could give you a list of reasons why I think she's a bad candidate, but I could give you another list which makes her good. If she was better than the other candidates, then she was the one who should take over the position.
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Lakewoman50 schreef:
So lets start the recall drive, I have heard a lot of talk about people wanting to get this ball rolling.
quote:
Elias12 schreef:
Why not start a recall effort?
Sure, do it - I would love to see the support you get. The last recall effort against Williamson had some serious players in it, many who are on Dayne's side of the fence at the moment, including Ms. Poplar. I would be curious to see how successful you would be doing it without them this time around, could be a fun thing to sit back and watch. Besides, the democratic process is always such a joy. |
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Tue Sep 01, 2009 1:04 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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"could be a fun thing to sit back and watch" Kinda like what Obamas been up to lately,and it just keeps getting better..  |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Sep 01, 2009 6:06 pm |
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Elias12
F L I N T O I D
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| I think that all this sort of activity for and against the mayors in this city is actually a good sign, I really do. I like to see it. I like contesting the leaders wills and ideas. I like dissent. I like the debate between myself and Domet, it is great. So Flint citizens, keep it going. |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Tue Sep 01, 2009 10:30 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| I hang around to see what happens next. And something interesting always does. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Wed Sep 02, 2009 7:47 am |
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Dan Moilanen
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Elias12 schreef:
Why not start a recall effort? It will give us something else to spend money on and get some people active and engaged in the political process. And if the group who intitates this recall efforts then also hires people to collect these signatures, Dayne's promise for jobs coming into the area has been partially kept. People getting paid to collect signatures , people at the Clerk's office who may get over-time counting these singatures, the lawyers that are involved, wow! So in a weird way by opposing the mayor those involved in the recall effort are better citizens because in thier own way, they contributed to helping the mayor keep his campaign promises. And being supportive of the mayor is what we are being told we should do,right?
the election was LESS THAN A MONTH AGO, and he's been in office for EVEN LESS THAN THAT!
Do you honestly expect significant change within a MONTH?
If you do, you CLEARLY don't understand the municipal policy making process and all that it entails.
No one can change Flint over-night... it takes community effort and cooperation, and simply trying to recall a politician IMMEDIATELY after he is elected is frivolous and outright petty.
Give it time, and Flint will change, but it probably won't be for years...
Also, to chime in on Donna, she's qualified for an HR position, which has little to do with actual executive, mayoral policy. Her past "criminal" record really isn't relevant or that big of a deal. You people just like controversy, and there certainly are bigger fish to fry when it comes to local politics.
But just to check, you people DO know what a human relations department is for, correct? |
_________________
-Dan
"I am not a Marxist."
-Karl Marx |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:20 am |
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Elias12
F L I N T O I D
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| I think Dan and Domet are the same person. I was being ironic or some say, facetious, or okay, how is this, saracastic. I don't like Walling's choice at all and I see little change from the man who said he represented change. No I don't expect change in less than a month, I am not absurd. I just think having to overlook someone being a criminal ( I know , expunged) is a sad commentary on how bad the pool of talent is in town. I think it is bad that we had a former convict as our Mayor ( Williamson) and I think it is bad we have to over look another person's past errors ( Poplar) in this instance. I could say Flint deserves better than both of these indviduals but the recent postings ( Domet) prove this city is getting just exactly what it wants and probably deserves. So the city has what it wants, a bunch of medicore, quasi criminals running the place. Only bright spot in the Williamson example is that he didn't require a paycheck, but he was unpredictable, surly , non communicative and arrogant. Walling just may do something good for the city, he does have the benefit of a great education , I will say that. I would say that ,by reading these posts the past week or so , that there is still a pulse in this town, which is perhaps a good sign. I would say too, Domet, that a Personal Director does make very important choices that may reflect upon the city itself, but you would probably say that wasn't logical. And another "illogical" observation, many times in politics it isn't logic that wins but perception of what someone is or stands for does win the vote. Flint is a city with a whole crap load of things to overcome , and quite a bit of it rests in the eyes and minds of people who only makes decisions based upon soley what they observe, not by asking themselves the right questions. |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 3:44 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Dan Moilanen schreef:
No one can change Flint over-night... it takes community effort and cooperation, and simply trying to recall a politician IMMEDIATELY after he is elected is frivolous and outright petty.
Give it time, and Flint will change, but it probably won't be for years...
Also, to chime in on Donna, she's qualified for an HR position, which has little to do with actual executive, mayoral policy. Her past "criminal" record really isn't relevant or that big of a deal. You people just like controversy, and there certainly are bigger fish to fry when it comes to local politics.
But just to check, you people DO know what a human relations department is for, correct?
So, what has he done so far, other than make questionable appointments? If Donna's record is irrelevant, then so is Willimason's.
QUESTiON: On Grace, near Dupont, these has been a 4x8 sheet of plywood with a sign painted on it commemorating the young man that was shot & killed there recently. It read: "RIP, Jizz". The site has been guarded, if you will, by one or two gang bangers. I drove by it & got the evil eye, so I know this isn't made up. A lady I know called community policing - Sgt. Dye, I believe - to see if something could be done to get the sign removed. She was asked if she lived on that street & when she said no, the officer told her to stay in her own neighborhood & mind her own business. Is this the community friendly police department Mr. Walling has been advocating? |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 8:41 am |
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Elias12
F L I N T O I D
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| Dave, I agree with you about the comment about "friendly community policing" , and before people start in with "Dayne hasn't been in office more than a month" ( which is accurate) this attitude from the police has been a problem through many mayoral adimistrations. I think hearing a police officer responding in the fashion that Dave mentions lends itself to making more problems for the city. If people from the city are told that they essentially have to stay in their own neighborhoods ,how does that help foster a sense of community this place needs so desperately? But I guess if one looks at the state of finances in this city we whould be grateful that we have any police or fire protection at all. |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:31 am |
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Elias12
F L I N T O I D
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| I misquoted Dave, sorry, "community friendly policing" . |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 10:49 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| The cops know who the bangers are where they hang and where and whom is running the drug houses. Apparently they cant get authorization from their superiors to "take them out" which I presume would be viewed as profiling by some in the community and probably on this forum. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:27 am |
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back again
F L I N T O I D
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are you kidding? "take out" 2 kids honoring their murdered friend?
outrageous!! "gangbangers", how do you know that? is it their manner of dress? the fact they didn't smile when you drove by? |
_________________
even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:39 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| How about the gang graffiti painted on the sign? How about the lady I know that lives on Grace that knows those bangers? How about the owner of the store at Grace & Dupont who has seen his business drop drastically since this happened? How about the kid pilling up his shirt as I drove by so I could see his gun? |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 11:55 am |
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Domet
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Elias12 schreef:
I think Dan and Domet are the same person.
But our writing style is so dissimilar!
quote:
Elias12 schreef:
I would say too, Domet, that a Personal Director does make very important choices that may reflect upon the city itself, but you would probably say that wasn't logical. And another "illogical" observation, many times in politics it isn't logic that wins but perception of what someone is or stands for does win the vote.
Ah, you assume too much about a person you know too little about. I wouldn't say that it is "illogical," not at all. I would say that you have a little bit more of a point to make, but saying that somebody in an executive role probably has some influence over a number of things is likely a fair thing to say.
Your observation isn't "illogical" at all. It pretty true. People (human beings) are actually very naturally logical people. Even in politics where things are based more heavily in responses to perceived actions and persons, your personal decisions related to a person or an act are negotiated through largely logical means. Something like, "I should vote for the person who most represents my views. This person believes in low taxes, I believe in low taxes, I should vote for this person."
Kind of disturbing though, don't you think? At all? I do. Don't want to derail this post in a rant on my personal problems with the American way of thinking, but things should make sense. People should be expected to explain themselves to others. We are all sometimes at each others' throats yelling about who to elect or what laws to vote for - but we rarely take the time to sit and think about why we support what we do and whether or not it makes sense.
Because a bunch of people feel like they don't have to make sense is not a logical reason for you or anybody else not to as well . People tend not to get along super well because we're so wrapped up in our emotional position - if we can ever get past that point this place is going to shape up into something really cool, I think that is genuinely true. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:02 pm |
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Dave Starr
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Elias, the odd thing is that I was at a meeting where Sgt. Dye spoke. He talked about how community policing was there to help the citizens. He gave us his phone number & told us to call with our concerns. Then, someone does & he tells her to stay in her own neighborhood & mind her own business.
When Don was mayor, he had several officers come to meetings, including the head of special ops, who was forced into retirement when Don left. We had his, and other officers', cell phone numbers. When we called about problems, we got action. Now, Lock comes to a meeting & his answer to all questions is: "call 911". A lady I know on Odette called 911 about shots being fired in front of her house. The response was: "what do you want us to do about it?". Things like this make me think that the north & east sides are being deliberately ignored in favor of other parts of Flint. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 12:04 pm |
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Elias12
F L I N T O I D
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| David, from the experiences I had with the Flint Police department this sort of response and attitude are not all that uncommon. I have lived here in Flint all my life and more often than not my dealing with the cops in this town left me ,typically, feeling very pissed off (not eloquent but to the point) . I do know of a few cops however who are decent people , I even name on, James Peterson. From what I have seen of this officer he embodies what I think most police should have, he is seems to make an effort to understand what is going on around in this town and , sadly , is rare . A few others I ran into over the years also seem to be willing to help ,but I regret to say I didnt get these officers names. I do think certain sides of town do get special treatment, I agree . I don't think the East Village would have as open prostitution going on as the Eastide has to deal with. And the East Villagers also seem to have far more sympathetic responses to their concerns ( like getting streets closed off and that sort of thing) than the East Side or the North End. But that isn't a new devlopment,that has gone on since the 70's from what I have seen and read about. In a town where we are essentially all "blue collars" there seems to be this peculiar "pecking order" where the people of the East Village ( or College/Cultrual Center) are the few the city leaders seem to take into account . I am not suggesting that the East Village be dropped and all resources given to the the East Side and /or the North End, that would be stupid. But what has to happen is that the leaders have to listen to the people from the East Side and the North End, and not be dismissive of their ideas and concerns, which seems to be the case. Admittedly Eastsiders are not often easy to deal with people ( same of the Northenders) but I think that stems from the fact they do seem to be ignored. I am wondering if we can get a few police personel to give thier input into as what their concerns are ( not the union sort of issues) and then see if there is common concerns with the people. Just a suggestion/ |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Fri Sep 04, 2009 4:51 pm |
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