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Domet
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quote:
Elias12 schreef:
"Grow a spine"? What the hell are you talking about Domet? I have a spine, stronger one than yours. I live in this city, I have seen politicans make stupid choices for years and years here.
I wasn't comparing spines, I was just telling you to grow one. I've lived here for years, I've seen politicians make bad choices. I'm still hanging around and doing what I can when I can, so if you want to measure spines, from what I can see mines a bit sturdier than yours.
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Elias12 schreef:
And yes Donna Poplar has a lot of support,so did Al Capone, but that didn't make what he did right.
Poor reasoning - Donna Poplar is not Al Capone, despite whatever spin you would like to attach from her. Argument from analogy only serves emotional purposes and defies any real source of rational, logical systems.
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Elias12 schreef:
No, we can't "all get along" , not all actions have the same results. So I guess we will all just have to do is let Mr Walling and his seasoned band of political cronies have their way with our city while we just "hope" things out and rub our lucky rabbit's feet till the fur is off of them,right?
Nobody asked if we could all just get along, you're quoting things that were never even said. Not really sure what effect you're going for. Here you are again just putting your spin on the situation. Like I said before, it's like you have some personal axe to grind. The faster you get out, the better off the rest of us will be.
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Elias12 schreef:
Let's see. I voice objections to an appointment and compared to being a rat because I want to leave a city where my opinions don't matter, my objections are mocked and any input I may have is ignored , I am essentially told to shut and up and "hope" that this idiot now elected mayor know what he is doing and I have to have"faith" in him.
You're weren't being compared to a rat. It was a metaphor, I apologize if you were incapable of processing that. Your objections are mocked and your opinions don't matter because you aren't a rational person. You made a couple of relatively acceptable points, which I'm willing to cede to you. But then you go on to say, "I won't be convinced otherwise." You've drawn a line in the sand, and with no way to persuade you, I don't see why A. You are posting or B. Why anybody should care what you have to say. You want to leave the city, take an exit interview on the way out and don't let the door hit you in the ass. Your opinion seems to be something along the lines of, "Donna Poplar is evil, and as a result the entire Walling administration is now compromised!" How? You haven't really spelled out why that makes sense, but still stick to the opinion anyway.
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Elias12 schreef:
I will give a forecast of what the Walling years will be like.
Based on what? Your super awesome experience? Based on your personal knowledge of the Walling administration? You are making these super broad claims that are meaningless.
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Elias12 schreef:
The best definition of insanity I have ever heard is doing the same thing over and over again in the same manner and getting furious that you aren't getting different results. That is what is happening here.
Yes, of course it is. Dayne Walling is every past mayor, he's doing exactly the things they are doing.  I'm more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt and see what he goes with it than judge him and his entire tenure based on a single hire, which I will say again I still disagree with. You aren't. Whatever jaded, dark corner of the world you have come from which allows you to disguise cynicism as wisdom is a place I never want to visit. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 12:23 am |
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back again
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elias is 2tap! 
i'm assuming the mayor noticed over a thousand kids went to the eastside mission for back to school goodies. jobs-jobs-jobs. go get em mayor!! |
_________________
even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:28 am |
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Elias12
F L I N T O I D
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I suppose Domet thinks he has zinged me good, such rapier wit he has, I am wounded to the quick. So this city would be better off without me, okay, perhaps so, but then who will pay the taxes on the houses I own here? They sure the hell aren't going to find a buyer in the market here. So I guess being a good citizen to Domet is having "faith" and giving the benefit of the doubt to someone already displaying terrible judgement.And being silent,,seemingly very crucial to Domet's recipe for good citizenship.As far as having a personal axe to grind,none whatsoever. So when, sage Domet, are we permitted to be critical of Mr Walling?I suppose you think we are just to go along with everything he does in office,right? I think putting tried and FAILED people into positions is a stupid idea. Simple as that. And oh, yes,,the cynicism,why shouldn't I be cynical? How does me being cynical of Mr Walling affect his choices? He doesn't consult with me or anyone else I know.
And how do you have a sturdier spine than me? Who hasn't seen the same things you say you have seen? Your spine has nothing to do with it, more than likely you are trapped here like most people and be honest, if you had a way out of here, you would have exited long ago, so don't make yourself sound heroic and resolute. |
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You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:10 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| Domet is backagain |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:52 am |
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Elias12
F L I N T O I D
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| So the faster I am out the better for the rest of you,huh Domet? So that is how it is, shut up ? Just pay your taxes and let your betters run things? I suspect you are just as expendable as I am in the greater scheme of things, depsite your over estimated sense of self -worth. |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:55 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| Just what were any of you expecting with another good old liberal democrat in charge of Flint. The 40 year track record will continue. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:43 am |
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Domet
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Elias12 schreef:
So I guess being a good citizen to Domet is having "faith" and giving the benefit of the doubt to someone already displaying terrible judgement.And being silent,,seemingly very crucial to Domet's recipe for good citizenship.
If putting words in my mouth makes you feel better about your position, you can certainly do that. I never told you to have "faith" and no matter how many times you put apostrophes around it, you can't make it true. I started by a rather simple reasoning method - you cannot be convinced otherwise of your position, which in turn means you're just here to shoot from the hip and otherwise be worthless to conversation. What's the point in debating a position if they are set in stone? You aren't adding to the conversation, but rather are detracting. Instead of responding to points, you make up quotations and debate yourself. I haven't told you to have faith, I'm just telling you to be a reasonable person, which you have proven in every post you are incapable of being.
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Elias12 schreef:
.And being silent,,seemingly very crucial to Domet's recipe for good citizenship.
Did I say that? Man, it seems like... no, wait.. nope, not once did I say it was ever important to be silent. You really like to make things up, don't you? When you are incapable of making a well reasoned argument, it seems like you instead make up arguments and then attribute them falsely to those you disagree with. So not only are you lacking reason, but you're also a liar. Why should anybody listen to a man who can't even argue honestly? It's like watching a Michael Moore movie or listening to Rush Limbaugh - what's the point?
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Elias12 schreef:
So when, sage Domet, are we permitted to be critical of Mr Walling?
While I would never claim to be a sage, I accept your compliment with complete appreciation. As to your question - whenever you want. I have zero issue with you or any other person being critical. I have an issue with you being a wall of stone with nothing reasonable to offer the conversation save for your savage, belligerent perspectives. There isn't anything I can gleam from that, and neither can anybody else. All we can tell is that you're angry enough about something to get up and leave the city, but you haven't actually left any feedback at all. I will paraphrase what you have said thus far, "Mayor Walling appointed Donna Poplar, who is an ex-felon with an expunged record. This reeks of something terrible and I just can't stand to live here any more" (see when I false quote, I at least note that I'm doing it).
How are we supposed to take that? It doesn't make any goddamn sense. What was her crime? Why should she be barred from the position? She has a masters degree in human resources from Central Michigan - she's certainly qualified. Why is it this appointment that breaks the back for you? What Mayor Walling has done is play politics, of that he is guilty. Sure, absolutely. But what is going to happen? Isn't that important? Won't you feel insanely stupid if you move and this becomes the most successful administration in Flint's history? I am not predicting that it will, but you haven't even given it a chance yet. Instead, you're here telling all of us how pissed off you are. I understand that man, I do! I voted for Walling, I volunteered on his campaign a couple of times. I've met with him, shook his hand, I know his old campaign manager personally. I like this guy, and I trust him. Maybe that's the difference between you and me, who knows.. but when I meet somebody, I would rather trust that they aren't going to stab me in the back than assume the worse in them. To be honest, these appointments have been making me very angry too, and if he screws up and I am going be pissed to an extreme. Does that mean I will let it dominate me to the point of being irrational and stupid? No way.
Dayne Walling has done nothing to indicate that he is just using this on his resume, and he has done nothing to show me that he can't run this city. I am a person who believes in second chances. Isn't that what our legal system is about? You get convicted, you go to jail and supposedly you are rehabilitated and then released. Second chance! Donna Poplar did something stupid, sure. Does that mean that she can't run a department at city hall? No, I don't know that it does mean that. Does it mean that we should keep a close eye on her? Sure. Does it mean that Dayne maybe made a mistake? Absolutely. Does it mean I'm leaving the city? No, that response doesn't even make sense. At least it doesn't to me, and thus far you haven't offered a reasonable reason as to why it makes sense to you either. Instead, you have been falsely quoting, putting words in my mouth and otherwise making yourself out to be a heap full of anger without an ounce of sense in his head.
No skin off my back.
quote:
Elias12 schreef:
Your spine has nothing to do with it, more than likely you are trapped here like most people and be honest, if you had a way out of here, you would have exited long ago, so don't make yourself sound heroic and resolute.
You sir, are an idiot. Not only do I have the means to leave the city, but some days I even have the will. I'm hanging around for as long as possible and, when my life takes me out of this city, I will do what I can to make it a short leave. I love the city of Flint, and I am here because I want to be. Not everybody can say that, but I can. I love my neighborhood, I like my neighbors, I like the location and I genuinely enjoy the environment. Not everything is peachy, but then nothing ever is. I don't have it as bad as some people may, and that is something I can appreciate. But as for me, I know who I am, I know what I have and I know where I want to be - right here.
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Elias12 schreef:
So the faster I am out the better for the rest of you,huh Domet? So that is how it is, shut up ? Just pay your taxes and let your betters run things? I suspect you are just as expendable as I am in the greater scheme of things, despite your over estimated sense of self -worth.
Look at you getting yourself worked up over something nobody but yourself said. I mean, it's almost entertaining to watch you get so angry at yourself by pretending other people are telling you to shut-up or that it's better to be quiet than to protest. I have never told you what my estimated worth is. But I will tell you this - in the long run, people who stay in the city of Flint versus those who leave - those who stay are worth more, at least to the city. So, my "estimated sense of self-worth" comes from the understanding that if I stay, I'm valuable to somebody. At least I have that going for me. As for you, when you go, you are worthless, to me, to the city. Maybe you will find value elsewhere, of that I have no doubt. Everybody has worth sometimes, somewhere, somehow. I don't doubt that you have some as well.
Peace on earth, brother bear. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 1:48 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| So, when can we expect Mr. Walling to start doing something about the crime in Flint? Other than attend anti-crime & violence rallies that accomplish absolutely nothing. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 2:17 pm |
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Elias12
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| Domet, if I am idiot then you are a greater one. You are a smug and arrogant person who has done nothing but mock my point of view. I am rational , I am not frothing at the mouth and making wild accusations or anything like that. I see that you do have a streak of arrogance . You have made very spiteful comments about how I am hoding back the city or words to that affect. Wow, hurts me so bad that I want to cry. If you can't see the utter stupidity of Dayne's move in hiring Poplar then you are the one who has the problem with being irrational. But I do admit you aren't as gullible to think she can be fully trusted , you even state she should be watched carefully. So I guess you are somewhat realistic. I think it is terrible mistake for this new administration though. As to Poplar being "evil" ,no,but she is corrupt , and i have serious doubts if she will change. As far as letting the door hit me in the ass when I leave, I doubt if there will be anything left to encumber anyone's exit . So what do you suggest as a course of action when one sees the elected officals doing stupid things ? Simply join in and let them do whatever they want to? So I will be around , for awhile at least, pissing ol Domet off. Sorry Domet, you haven't overpowered me with the power of your intellect. I will admit if and when Dayne does something intelligent but so far , the score looks bad. |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 4:14 pm |
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Domet
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Elias12 schreef:
Domet, if I am idiot then you are a greater one.
Ahh, brings me back to kindergarten. Thanks for the memories!
quote:
Elias12 schreef:
You are a smug and arrogant person who has done nothing but mock my point of view.
I have mocked your point of view, but there isn't much left to do when your very posts are a mockery in and of themselves.
quote:
Elias12 schreef:
I am rational , I am not frothing at the mouth and making wild accusations or anything like that.
Here I actually went through all of your posts in this thread and picked your arguments out. I would have posted it, but I'm really only so petty. Look, Elias12, if you go through your posts and your arguments, they are all based on logical fallacies, a lot of them slippery slopes. Your entire perspective on the matter seems to be biased by those fallacies. Since your arguments are logically false, you lack reason and are therefor being irrational.
If I have a "streak of arrogance" for calling you on lacking reason and pointing out the flaws in your arguments, then I'll take that one. I do appreciate though that, once again, when you can't make an argument your recourse is to attack me personally. The argument is not important, Domet is an arrogant dick! Ha, of course,
that's why Dayne Walling hired Donna Poplar!
All you know about me is that I've pointed out how incredibly irrational you are, and that I think that people who leave the city because a mayor makes a bad decision are irrelevant. Which you would be. If you leave the city, you have no value to the city. Well, maybe a negative value.
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So I will be around , for awhile at least, pissing ol Domet off.
Maybe you haven't realized it yet, but you aren't pissing me off... you're keeping me entertained. I find you incredibly amusing. The only person who seems to be getting angry here is you, ha.
Your position is based entirely on points that fall under the category "logical fallacies," that you do appear to be "frothing at the mouth" in a number of your posts and you've been arguing from a point which lacks reason. I saved the "point by point" post I had been making in which I pulled your posts and arguments apart, and if you would like I would be happy to recap to bring the point home.
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Elias12 schreef:
Sorry Domet, you haven't overpowered me with the power of your intellect.
Sorry to disappoint, but I am not trying to "overpower" you with my intellect. I am merely pointing out that your position isn't based in logic or reason. If you think I'm trying to combat you, you would be wrong. You haven't actually offered anything to combat yet, just a lot of emotional, knee-jerk positions which you seem to think are rational. As for "holding the city back," that's not my position at all. I did say, however, that should you want to leave the city because a mayor made a bad choice then we would be better off. I think society is always better off when people who have knee-jerk responses aren't around. At the very least murder rates would go down and at the very best we would all get along a heck of a lot better.
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Elias12 schreef:
So what do you suggest as a course of action when one sees the elected officials doing stupid things ? Simply join in and let them do whatever they want to?
Write it down, get in touch with Dayne even, ask him about it and ask him to reason it. Dayne is a pretty accessible guy and, in my experience, has been open to talking to just about anybody. Keep a list of shit you don't like that he's doing, talk to your friends about it - reason it out. Have some friendly debates, think about your position and, when the time comes, act on it. I don't think that you are wrong in some of your positions but you have told us that your opinion can't be changed. The only thing I can do in that position is point out how irrational you are being and hope you come to your senses. Despite what you said above, you have made wild accusations and all of your positions are based on systems of illogic. If you want to have a conversation about the topic and voice how angry you are, there is no problem with that. You can tell people how you feel without being irrational, and when the time comes sign the petition for recall, vote against him or join the groups that are opposing him. Write your councilman/woman, send him a letter telling him how disappointed you are. There are many useful solutions here, none of which are "go and scream at an internet forum." |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:04 pm |
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back again
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| the mayor will never hear from elias! |
_________________
even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 7:37 pm |
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Elias12
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| Where are there logcial flaws in simply stating the idea that you think someone is a bad choice to fill a slot? Sounds like you are trying to impress someone with a lot of babble . As far as the mayor not hearing from me , he will. I am not some gutless person. I am not intimidated by some suit wearing man , Dayne being the mayor doesn't scare me off, and neither do you. He is paying off his debts with the future of Flint at stake, and this should not be tolerated. His choice is wrong, simple as that. Giving Poplar a second chance will not play out well, people do remember her misdeeds and will be more dimissive of attempts to allegedly remake the city's image. People said they wanted change, how is that met by supplying them with the same players? How is this flawed logic? So I am glad you picked up a book on logic at a rummage sale but find some other avenue for showing how much of the vocabulary you gleaned from it. As for Poplar being qualfied in regards to her having the correct degree,,BRAVO, so are about two dozen other potential candiates for that job who don't have the baggage she has, just go through those resumes for one of those. |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 8:11 pm |
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LakeWoman50
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| So lets start the recall drive, I have heard a lot of talk about people wanting to get this ball rolling. |
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Mon Aug 31, 2009 10:01 pm |
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Dan Moilanen
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
LakeWoman50 schreef:
So lets start the recall drive, I have heard a lot of talk about people wanting to get this ball rolling.
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_________________
-Dan
"I am not a Marxist."
-Karl Marx |
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Tue Sep 01, 2009 12:12 am |
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Elias12
F L I N T O I D
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| Why not start a recall effort? It will give us something else to spend money on and get some people active and engaged in the political process. And if the group who intitates this recall efforts then also hires people to collect these signatures, Dayne's promise for jobs coming into the area has been partially kept. People getting paid to collect signatures , people at the Clerk's office who may get over-time counting these singatures, the lawyers that are involved, wow! So in a weird way by opposing the mayor those involved in the recall effort are better citizens because in thier own way, they contributed to helping the mayor keep his campaign promises. And being supportive of the mayor is what we are being told we should do,right? |
_________________
You fool all the people all the time,if you control the press. By pass the "offical channels" and see what is really going. |
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Tue Sep 01, 2009 11:08 am |
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