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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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Obama: Joe, what are we going to do about this gang problem?
Biden: I know, let's ban guns.
Obama: That does nothing to stop gangs and violence.
Biden: I know but it makes people think we are doing something and it's
a lot cheaper and easier than going after the real problem.
Obama: OK sounds good, let's do it.
FBI: Burgeoning gangs behind up to 80% of U.S. crime
By Kevin Johnson, USA TODAY
Criminal gangs in the USA have swelled to an estimated 1 million members responsible for up to 80% of crimes in communities across the nation, according to a gang threat assessment compiled by federal officials.
The major findings in a report by the Justice Department's National Gang Intelligence Center, which has not been publicly released, conclude gangs are the "primary retail-level distributors of most illicit drugs" and several are "capable" of competing with major U.S.-based Mexican drug-trafficking organizations.
"A rising number of U.S.-based gangs are seemingly intent on developing working relationships" with U.S. and foreign drug-trafficking organizations and other criminal groups to "gain direct access to foreign sources of illicit drugs," the report concludes.
The gang population estimate is up 200,000 since 2005. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:56 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| Time to crank up the reloading press & run off another 1,000 rounds of 45ACP. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 1:54 pm |
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pan8
F L I N T O I D
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Another 1000? Dam, you getting ready for Armageddon?
I subscribe to the theory of "one shot, one kill." But then again if you have 1000 bad guys comming atcha - - - -  |
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:58 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| Naw, that's how much empty brass I have. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:30 am |
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pan8
F L I N T O I D
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I find that I am partial to .40 S&W. I have reloaded .38, .30/.30, .357 and now my choice is my .40cal. Not quite the weight of the M1911A1 slug (.45 being 240 grains I think) but I feel the velocity of the .40 is greater. As I recall the .45 travels about 840 feet per second. Hell of a fine weapon! The only reason the U.S. military forces switced to 9mm is because it is a NATO round. That 9 just does not have the knock down power of the .45.
Now if I were to look for a .9mm I am thinking Sig Sauer. The quality and manufacturing in my opinion is second to none.
Pan8 |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:58 am |
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torgohugo
F L I N T O I D
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| Legalize all drugs and tax the hell out of them |
_________________
"Join us- won't we?" MST3K |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:18 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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The reason the 9mm gets a bad rap is because our military is forced to abide by the geneva convention and use only full metal jacket. I say start playing by the same rules these out of uniform roadside bombers use and load up the M9s with a good +p or +p+ 9mm hollowpoint. The results would be much improved stopping power. I posted this before and it is the results of the research of Evan Marshall who is a retired detroit pd homicide officer. It shows that their is little if any difference between 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp when the proper loads are placed in the proper spot. They all work and they all fail.
The percentages are one shot stops.
.22LR CCI,Rem,Win Hi.Vel. 37grLHP 975 78 10.3" n/a 29% unk.
.22LR CCI Stinger 32gr.LHP 1262 113 9.8" n/a 34% 6" Colt
.22WMR Winchester 40gr.JHP 1400 174 13" n/a 42% 6.5" Ruger
.25ACP All 50gr.FMJ 760 64 18" n/a 23% unk.
.32ACP Winchester 60gr.STHP 970 125 6.5" n/a 63% 3.2" Wthr.
.32Mag Federal 85gr.JHP 1050 208 n/a n/a n/a 4" H&R"
.380ACP Federal Hydra-Shok 90gr.JHP 1007 200 10.5" 10.94 sec. 69% 3.6" SIG
.380ACP Fed, Rem, Win. 95gr.FMJ 955 190 17" 22.8 sec. 51% 3.6" SIG
.38Spec. Winchester +P 158gr.LHP 790 280 15.2" n/a 67% 2" S&W
.38Spec Winchester +P 158gr.LHP 996 342 15.2" 10.76 sec. 78% 4" S&W
.38Spec. Federal 158gr.RNL 708 176 28.5" 33.68 sec. 52% 4" S&W
9x19 Cor-Bon +P 115gr.JHP 1321 454 14.2" 8.92 sec. 91% 4" Glock
9x19 Rem.Golden Saber+P 124gr.JHP 1180 384 12" n/a 83% unk.
.38Super Remington +P 115gr.JHP 1300 431 n/a n/a 88% 5" test
.357Mag. Remington 125gr.SJHP 1468 583 13" 7.34 sec. 96% 4" Colt
.357Mag. Remington Med.Vel. 125gr.SJHP 1205 413 15.5" 7.94 sec. 83% 4" Colt
.40S&W Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr.JHP 950 361 15" 8.32 sec. 89% 4" S&W
.40S&W Rem.Golden Saber 165gr.JHP 1150 485 12" n/a 94% 4" S&W
10mm Winchester 175gr.STHP 1250 607 12.8" n/a 92% 4.25" S&W
10mmMV Federal Hydra-Shok 180gr.JHP 980 383 15" n/a 87% 4.25" S&W
.41Mag. Winchester 210gr.JHP 1300 789 17.5" n/a 82% 4" S&W
.44Spec. Winchester 200gr.STHP 819 298 10.4" n/a 75% 4" S&W
.44Mag. Winchester 210gr.STHP 1301 788 15.1" n/a 90% 4" S&W
.45ACP Federal Hydra-Shok 230gr.JHP 819 366 13.3" 8.40 sec. 94% 5" Colt
.45ACP Fed, Rem, Win. 230 FMJ 839 360 27" 13.84 sec. 63% 5" Colt
.45Colt Federal 225LHP 900 405 19.5" n/a 78% 4" S&W
Please Note: The above data is drawn from various sources including the book Handgun Stopping Power by Marshall and Sanow, and various articles in magazines such as Handguns. To order the latest books by Marshall and Sanow, follow my link to Evan Marshal's Stopping Power web page. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:45 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| hey Torgo ever get to see Once Upon A Time In America?? |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 12:55 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
pan8 schreef:
I find that I am partial to .40 S&W. I have reloaded .38, .30/.30, .357 and now my choice is my .40cal. Not quite the weight of the M1911A1 slug (.45 being 240 grains I think) but I feel the velocity of the .40 is greater. As I recall the .45 travels about 840 feet per second. Hell of a fine weapon! The only reason the U.S. military forces switced to 9mm is because it is a NATO round. That 9 just does not have the knock down power of the .45.
Now if I were to look for a .9mm I am thinking Sig Sauer. The quality and manufacturing in my opinion is second to none.
Pan8
There's some loads for the 45ACP with a 185gr that chrono at a bit over 1000fps. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 1:55 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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I carry golden saber 185+p 45acp in my SW CS45. Of course the 3" barrel cuts down on the velocity and my Chronograph meant an untimely death from a 124 gr +p speer gold dot. but heres some chrono info for that load.
Remington +P 185-gr. Golden Saber JHP Performance
FIREARM VELOCITY
/ES/ED ENERGY 5-SHOT Groups
(25 yds.)
Smallest Largest Average
Baer Custom Carry 1,104/45/12 fps
1,116/37/10 fps 500.6 ft-lbs
511.53 ft.-lbs. 2.65
2.44 4.30
3.46 3.68
2.70*
Kimber Custom Target 1,086/46/11 fps 484.4 ft.-lbs 3.06 5.86 5.08
Para-Ordnance Companion
3.5-inch barrel 1,021/56/13 fps 428.1 ft.-lbs 1.93 3.32 |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:08 pm |
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pan8
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
torgohugo schreef:
Legalize all drugs and tax the hell out of them
Huh? 
Might end the drug wars that are going on in Mexico but only if the "stuff" was cheaper than what the cartels are charging. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:37 pm |
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pan8
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
twotap schreef:
I say start playing by the same rules these out of uniform roadside bombers use and load up the M9s with a good +p or +p+ 9mm hollowpoint.
2Tap, very interesting data.
I like your logic of playing by the same rules that "the bad guys" are using in the theater however our bleading hearts will not allow it. Whatever happened to all's fair in love and war?
This country is in trouble. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 3:57 pm |
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andi03
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
twotap schreef:
I carry golden saber 185+p 45acp in my SW CS45. Of course the 3" barrel cuts down on the velocity and my Chronograph meant an untimely death from a 124 gr +p speer gold dot. but heres some chrono info for that load.
Remington +P 185-gr. Golden Saber JHP Performance
FIREARM VELOCITY
/ES/ED ENERGY 5-SHOT Groups
(25 yds.)
Smallest Largest Average
Baer Custom Carry 1,104/45/12 fps
1,116/37/10 fps 500.6 ft-lbs
511.53 ft.-lbs. 2.65
2.44 4.30
3.46 3.68
2.70*
Kimber Custom Target 1,086/46/11 fps 484.4 ft.-lbs 3.06 5.86 5.08
Para-Ordnance Companion
3.5-inch barrel 1,021/56/13 fps 428.1 ft.-lbs 1.93 3.32
For those of us that don't appreciate guns, like yourself? This whole post looks like a freakin' algebra problem!!  |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:19 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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Just basic gun stuff.  And you thought all gun nuts were ignorant. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:31 pm |
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andi03
F L I N T O I D
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| Nah, just paranoid...<running for the hills> |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:32 pm |
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