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andi03
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
Like the comments after any article even remotely related to the Mayor on the Journal's web site?
I like the activism that they show, but not the non-civility shown towards you and others. 
Josh, I have a feeling with both sides there someone would have to be hired to check the pitchforks and torches at the door. |
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:44 pm |
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seek4truth
F L I N T O I D
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*I apologize about the length of this post in advance."
Dave,
"So far, the only thing I've seen in favor of a recall is a bunch of ranting about how Don's a crook. That, and vague statements alluding to various things. A lot of generalities but no specifics."
What would qualify as specifics? Bossman listed several reasons on why he feels that the Mayor should be recalled. Are these not specific enough? I'm not attacking you by no means, I'm just curious on what you would need to see to believe the Mayor is not qualified to hold office.
I know you and I don't agree on this subject. Doesn't it concern you to see the cuts being made in this city? I understand that the economy is bad right now. This is just another reason to tighten the finicial belt. The Mayor continues to spend without regard, while cutting vital city services. I think Saginaw is going through the same econimic trouble Flint is going through. Yet they haven't laid off any employees. The school system is seperate from the city government. They are hiring for their Police Department and Fire Department. They haven't stripped there citizens of their needed services like Flint has.
I will list some reasons on why I feel that the Mayor is spending without regard during these tough finicial times. If these are not specific enough, let me know. Chief Dicks is not working as a police officer. The Mayor continues to pay him a full salary. He promoted another Chief on top of that, with full pay of a Chief. I feel he knows he doesn't have the money to do this. After the promotion of another Deputy Chief he requested that every officer work 10 days a year without pay. He also repaved Bluff St. for a drag stip that never happened. How much did that cost? I heard over a $100,000 but I can't verify that. While laying off police he ordered city keys at double the price for which they are sold on the internet for. All of his "cronies" have take home vehicles. Chief Forystek drives to Clio with city gas. Deputy Chief Connie Johnson drives to Clarkston on city gas. His inspectors are paid an extra 12 hours a week for emergency stand by pay. That made up the difference in their salary when they were disbanded. All of his purchases were made under the emergency purchase clause. This means that the Council didn't have to approve it. Mike Vance was stripped of his Police Officer Certification because of drug use. He was fired because of his lack of honor. The Mayor hired him with full back pay, $250,000. He is paid out of the Police Department Budget. Mike Vance also helped him with his campaign.
I would also like to point out the dictatorship quality the Mayor has. This will make a great buisness man but a poor city leader. You need to compromise as a Mayor, if you don't it causes lawsuits. The Mayor had the Flint Journal delivery man arrested and lost more of the city tax dollars. Please watch this link he states that he has the power to arrest anyone, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrc2FbIco9Y. The Mayor also refused a early retirement solely funded by the police officers. It would have saved the city 2.8 million dollars over 20 years and hired back all of the laid off officers back. It didn't cost the city a dime. I can't prove this but the Mayor stated that he wouldn't make any deals while being recalled. The Deputy Chiefs are another lawsuit that the city will lose. In the contract, which is binding, states that the position is a tested position. You can't appoint people into this position. It would be the same as promoting a officer to LT. You can't do that until you work as a SGT.
Dave I understand that you feel the Mayor doesn't ignore the North End. This should be a quality every Mayor has. Just because he meets this criteria for you, can you overlook everything else? Lets be honest here, who is suffering the most from lack of police, the north end is.
He is just bluffing the north end. Did you ever see him attending church in the north end before he was the Mayor? How about donating to the NAACP before he was the Mayor? No, the Mayor has had money for along time. If he truley cared about the north end, he wouldn't need to be the Mayor to help it out. This is the same man being sued for racial discrimination at his dealership. How many black people did he associate with prior to being Mayor?
I know in the past you have stated that the north end has been accused of being the un-educated side of town. I think this is how the Mayor feels. Why would he not attend church anywhere else. I have never seen him downtown going to church. I think he feels that this is the side of town he can fool.
So.....what do you think about my rant? |
_________________
No job, no income, no motivation, no problem Obama has your back. |
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 6:13 pm |
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Josh Freeman
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
Like the comments after any article even remotely related to the Mayor on the Journal's web site?
Hey.. there are wacko's on all sides... But those wackos don't drive the agenda.
I think there should be a forum available where the Mayor can state his case on why he should continue in office and those opposing him can make the case why he should move on... |
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:36 pm |
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D
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As I previously stated, the mayor won't show up anyway. If anyone from City Hall shows up it will be some voicebox with a pre-arranged, non-negotiable set of facts that they can recite ad nauseum. There are only a couple of people in City Hall with enough brains to engage in literate conversation, let alone debate.
I predict February 18th will come and go with no response or action on Williamson's part. |
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:24 pm |
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back again
F L I N T O I D
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$250,000.00 !!!! one man???????  damn!!!! |
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Tue Feb 03, 2009 10:44 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
seek4truth schreef:
*I apologize about the length of this post in advance."
Dave,
So.....what do you think about my rant?
Very well reasoned.
A question. Are there contractual requirements for the Chief's position? Must the chief come from within the department, or can someone from another department, for example, be appointed chief?
As far as the North End, he's the only Mayor that has attended block club meetings & events in this part of town that I know of. People here have felt ignored by city hall for a lot of years, and they feel that he cares. Our council person told us at one of our block club meetings a couple years ago that she didn't have time to come to our meetings any more because she was too busy. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 8:44 am |
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D
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[size=18]Recall Fundraiser[/size]
When: Wednesday February 11, 2009
Time: 4:30pm until ?
Where: White Horse Tavern(corner of Court/Ann Arbor)
Donation: $20
Details: Pizza and salad provided
come out and support the recall effort.
Hosted by Flint Michigan United
www.flintmichiganunited.org |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:35 am |
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BrokenBadge
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
A question. Are there contractual requirements for the Chief's position? Must the chief come from within the department, or can someone from another department, for example, be appointed chief?
As far as the North End, he's the only Mayor that has attended block club meetings & events in this part of town that I know of. People here have felt ignored by city hall for a lot of years, and they feel that he cares. Our council person told us at one of our block club meetings a couple years ago that she didn't have time to come to our meetings any more because she was too busy.
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Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God (Matthew 5:9) |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:13 am |
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BrokenBadge
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
A question. Are there contractual requirements for the Chief's position? Must the chief come from within the department, or can someone from another department, for example, be appointed chief?
As far as the North End, he's the only Mayor that has attended block club meetings & events in this part of town that I know of. People here have felt ignored by city hall for a lot of years, and they feel that he cares. Our council person told us at one of our block club meetings a couple years ago that she didn't have time to come to our meetings any more because she was too busy.
Dave, the Chief does not have to come from within the department, it is an appointed position, but still requires some basic skills... like previous administrative responsibilities. The deputy chief is a position that is reached upon promotions from within the department. Its appears Williamson is side stepping contractual promotion procedures by attaching "interim" to each Chief he anoints.
As far as the mayor going to churches on the northend, he is just playing games. Do we really think Don Williamson is a Christian with the same views as the people that attend those churches? Do we really think he even believes in God? He is there trolling for votes. Period. No one ever said he was stupid, just severely fiscally careless. |
_________________
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called sons of God (Matthew 5:9) |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 10:35 am |
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seek4truth
F L I N T O I D
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Dave Star,
"A question. Are there contractual requirements for the Chief's position? Must the chief come from within the department, or can someone from another department, for example, be appointed chief?"
The Mayor has full rights to appoint a Police Chief. I will save the Intern part of the Chief for another debate. The Deputy Chief Position is a tested position. An example of this would be an officer writing for a SGT position. I'm sure you understand the rank structure of the police department. Its the same as the military, for the most part. A SGT can't write for a Capt. postion until he has been promoted to a LT. The same goes for the Deputy Chief. An Officer or a SGT can't be put into that position unless they work their way up the rank ladder. The Deputy Chief is not an appointed position. If it was an appointed position everytime the city changed Mayors the top brass in the Police Department would leave with the Mayor. The Police Department would have to start over every four years if a new Mayor was elected. Here is a link for the Chief of Police requirements for the City of Flint. I would like to point out that Chief Dicks does not meet these requirements. I'm not sure about Forystek, but we are still paying Chief Dicks.
http://cityofflint.com/postings/public/jobs/jobpostingO.asp?code=P045&dt=14-NOV-2008
This is all backed up by union contracts which are binding in Michigan. A lawsuit has been filed regarding the Deputy Chief postion by the Capts Union. This will just be another lawsuit lost at the expense of the taxpayers. They also have a lawsuit pending regarding the Inspectors. The above would also apply for these positions.
I agree that the north end seems to get ignored. I know the north end feels he cares, but does he? The city is supposed to remove trees and assist the block clubs in their daily duties. I don't feel that the Mayor has gone above and beyond his job duties. The reason I feel he is just fooling the north end, is because this Mayor now chooses to ignore the rest of the city. He is just putting up a front by attending churches and donating to the NAACP. He would not need to be the Mayor to help out the north end by donating money. He has had money for quite some time. If he truly cared about the north end you would have seen him north of the river prior to being the Mayor. The question I have is if the Mayor is doing enough for the north end, to overlook all of the other areas he is neglecting, like financial responsibility. I don't feel he is. I think one of the reasons the north end and the rest of the city are forced to look at urban blight is because of the unqualified people he appoints. There is no excuse for a park not to be mowed if the person in charge knows what he is doing. An good example would be Kay Kelly at Kearsly Park. It didn't cost the city a dime for her to work with us. She was qualified for her job and Kearsly Park showed this by improving. The Mayor still fired her and appointed a friend who had no experience with parks. The Mayor is paying his salary out of the general fund eventhough he claimed that he would pay her out of his pocket.
I guess what I am getting at is if the City of Flint stands a chance at all we need a Mayor that will represent the entire city. Not just the college area or the north end. We are all in this together as a city. Does that answer your question Dave? |
_________________
No job, no income, no motivation, no problem Obama has your back. |
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Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:06 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| He's gone way above & beyond what previous mayors and our non responsive council has done. The feeling here is that he's the first city official in many years that actually cares about the North End. Maybe it is all a scam, but people here look at actions and not possible ulterior motives. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:50 am |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
As far as the North End, he's the only Mayor that has attended block club meetings & events in this part of town that I know of. People here have felt ignored by city hall for a lot of years, and they feel that he cares. Our council person told us at one of our block club meetings a couple years ago that she didn't have time to come to our meetings any more because she was too busy.
Did Stanley give city money to the north end pastors?
Last edited by Adam on Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:44 am |
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seek4truth
F L I N T O I D
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Dave,
Do you feel he has done enough to overlook the finicial problems he is responsible for? Do you agree with me that he is failing with the city finances? The city needs to have money to help out the north end. Thats the issue I have with him. I think the city is beyond broke and is looking at a state takeover. Once that happens no part of the city will be receiving attention from city hall.
Today was another example of wasting tax dollars. He created a new position not in the charter for Buchanan. Thats more money the city doesn't have. Where are we expected to come up with the 90,000+ salary. This city is already in debt. The police department was just asked to take 10 days without pay by the Mayor himself. This demonstrates that the Mayor knows that the city doesn't have the money. I know there is a limit on how many people he can appoint as a Mayor in the Charter. I wonder if he has exceeded that number.
This Mayor had the potential to be one of the best Mayor's Flint has ever had. I think that he let his ego get in the way of doing that job. I also question the Mayor's health. Some of the things he is doing could be taken as early signs of Dementia. Just a thought, he is in his late 70's.
How do you feel about the Deputy Chief thing? |
_________________
No job, no income, no motivation, no problem Obama has your back. |
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Thu Feb 05, 2009 5:20 pm |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| I believe the financial problems are the responsibility of the administration and the council. Using the Buchanan scenario as an example, the Mayor should know we don't have any money, and the council should not have approved it.
10 days without pay?
Public safety is the LAST thing anyone should be messing with. Dementia? He just turned 75 on Monday, so it's a possibility I guess. I really wish a candidate for chief had been presented to the council for confirmation instead of all the "interims". If there is a procedure spelled out for deputy chiefs, it should be followed. The charter needs to be followed by both the administration and the council. Don's done some good things, but............................... |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Thu Feb 05, 2009 6:26 pm |
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seek4truth
F L I N T O I D
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*my posts seem to get longer and longer... sorry bout that.*
Dave,
I won't disagree about the council. I think they are a big problem as well. They seem to have forgotten they were elected to represent us. I feel the council has let us down by not being the check and balance like they are supposed to be. At no time should any of these appointments be allowed.
In a private buisness, like the Mayor is used to, it is no big deal not to follow procedure. When it comes to running a city, it is a big deal. It will result in law suits, like it has. In a private buisness they really can't do to much about it.
The Mayor makes everything personal. I think the final straw for me was when he refused to do the early retirement. I am biased when it comes to the police department, but it would have saved the city 2.8 million dollars. It didn't cost the city a dime to do. It was solely funded by the officers. An extra $80.00 (an estimate), a paycheck by the officers.
I agree the Mayor has helped out some people. I think overall he has hurt more people by not doing his job.
Flint has not had a Mayor represent the entire city for sometime. I've only lived here since Stanley, so thats how far I go back.
I don't think the Mayor cares about the city. I feel this way because he doesn't represent it equally. He now attends church in the north end and throws some money at the block clubs once in awhile. I think this is important to connect with your citizens, but why does he chose just to do it in the north end. I think he feels he can fool the north end. The north end is commonly refered to as the un-educated side of town. I think the Mayor believes this to be true. Has anyone seen him go to the south end or the east village to help out? Just to clarify, I'm not agreeing with the un-educated statement at all. The north end if filled with educated, good people. It just takes a couple of knuckle heads to ruin the image of any neighborhood.
I again ask, why the sudden interest in the north end after he became Mayor? The north end is most affected by the lack of police. It seems that crime is highest in the north end.
Here is an example of the Mayors lack of care for the north end. I assisted with obtaining a case against the Hammer Droppers after hours club. I understand its fun to party till 5am, but alot of crime came out of that club after everyone gets drunk. It was a routine to respond to this club every week for some sort of violent crime, or a shooting done out of a vehicle. There were several accidents almost every night from the drunk people driving. A couple of car chases even started there. Long story short, the after hours part was shut down for awhile.
The Mayor was upset by this and confronted the top brass about it. I know this from speaking with the SGT on the case. You would think that he would be happy the crime in that area dropped because of it not being open. He was upset because they were a good buisness, helping Flint out. This was at the same time the LLT incident occured. I think this could be one of the reasons the CATT Squad was disbanded. I know the residents would call every night about fights and shootings that took place in front of the club. This didn't matter to him. Dave, take this how you will but to me this shows his true intentions. I can't prove this but hopefully you take me on my word. Its just another story that happened behind closed doors.
So again, I ask you do you think that the Mayor has done enough to overlook the finicial downfall of the city? I hope I am keeping my anger out of these posts, I am trying to provide just information. My anger can be displayed on Mlive if your interested in seeing it  .
The "10 days without pay", meeting was held on 1/30/2009 at 9am with all of the union heads. They agreed to take cuts as soon as the Mayor agreed to stop paying Chief Dicks full pay and to reverse the illegal promotions. This would save the city money as well. You should lead by example, a problem the whole city has.
If the city keeps going like it is, the State will takeover. At this time no one will get represented.  |
_________________
No job, no income, no motivation, no problem Obama has your back. |
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Thu Feb 05, 2009 8:43 pm |
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