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last time here
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made great sense...i have to disagree with the notion that blacks are prone to agree with jackson and sharpton. personally, i agree with sharpton on some issues and some not. the same with jesse. because media
considers them "spokespersons" for blacks, allows them the outlet to
get a certain issue publicised but in no way means blacks consider them
our "leaders". for instance, i agree with the people here on several
issues and some i don't agree with. it's the same with the black folks i've
known. my only leader is god and what is spiritually correct.  |
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 10:08 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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U.S. Concealed Carry
Weekly Newsletter
Visit Here for Membership Information!
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February 15th, 2008
Dear Kathy, Mrs twotap 
Well, it was NOT an easy task, but I managed to jam-pack this week's newsletter with so much information that it's ready to burst at the seams!
I hope you had an AWESOME week, and an even better weekend.
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The Lesson of Kirkwood
by Bob WeirIt was just another city council meeting in the St. Louis suburb of Kirkwood, Missouri, population about 28,000. It was a Thursday evening and the session was just being called to order after the Pledge of Allegiance was recited. Although the council meetings in Kirkwood were occasionally immersed in controversy, they were reflective of a thousand other cities and towns across the country in which issues over zoning, parks, business and residential growth are often discussed with heated intensity. The mayor, council members and town staff had no reason to believe that this night would be any different. Certainly, they couldn't have imagined that in a matter of minutes 5 people would be shot dead in and around the building and 2 others would be severely wounded.
While Mayor Mike Swoboda, 69, was gaveling the meeting to begin, Lee "Cookie" Thornton, 52, a man well-known for his angry tirades at council sessions, was in the parking lot shooting to death Sgt. William Biggs, 50, a 20 year veteran of the Kirkwood Police Department. He took the slain officer's gun and burst into the council chambers, killing Police Officer Tom Ballman, 37, the department's spokesman and community service officer who was on duty at the meeting. Witnesses said Thornton began yelling, "Shoot the mayor," as he started his bloody rampage.
"We crawled under the chairs and just laid there," said a severely shaken reporter who was covering the meeting for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. Before the crazed gunman was brought down by other officers arriving at the scene he had killed 3 more people and wounded another two.
Among the dead were council members, Connie Karr, 51, in her second term and intending to run for mayor; Michael Lynch, 63, who had been on the council since 2000; and Kenneth Yost, 61, who served as the Public Works Director for the city. The mayor was wounded as was Todd Smith, a 36 year-old reporter. Mayor Swoboda, in critical condition, is serving his second and final term as mayor because of term limits. He is known by some as "Mr. Ubiquitous" because he shows up at every event. Most residents had good words for the mayor's commitment to the city and his many accomplishments. Yet, there was one resident who harbored a deep hatred for a man whom he believed was responsible for his torment.
Thornton was irate over zoning decisions that went against him, was furious over dozens of parking tickets that led to some $2,000 in fines and was livid over City Council attempts to curb his ranting at city meetings.
His outbursts during meetings had twice resulted in his forcible removal and arrests for disorderly conduct. Late last month, a judge threw out his lawsuit claiming the city infringed on his freedom of speech. Some say that was the final setback that put him over the edge. Reading about this horrific tragedy makes me wonder why someone didn't take steps to keep it from happening. How many signs do we need to forewarn us of danger? This man Thornton had been behaving like a maniac at council meetings for years. He had been handcuffed and literally dragged from chambers as he cursed the mayor and other city officials. At one point, the council considered banning him permanently, ultimately deciding he had a right to be there, but, because he had been disruptive at the podium, was prohibited from speaking.
Yes, hindsight is 20/20 and there's no purpose in trying to second guess those who didn't insulate themselves from someone who appeared to be emotionally deranged. However, we can and should learn something from this homicidal rampage.
The police officers were the first targets because the killer knew they were armed. Once he removed the threat from them, he knew he could begin to satisfy his malevolent thirst for revenge, unimpeded. The town attorney threw a couple of chairs at the madman, warding off some shots directed at him. Suppose that attorney was armed? How many lives might he have saved?
Suppose there had been a police officer in civilian clothes at the meeting? Last year, a former police officer at a Colorado church drew her weapon and killed a rampaging gunman before he could take any more lives.
We can't read anyone's mind, but we can read their behavior. Those 5 innocent people deserved to go home to their families that night. One inconspicuous police officer might have made it possible for at least some of them to do so.
Bob Weir is a former detective sergeant in the New York City Police Department. He is the executive editor of The News Connection in Highland Village, Texas.
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_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:44 am |
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Demeralda
F L I N T O I D
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I really hate this thread.
I refuse to believe that the solution to anything is more arms. It's one thing to not jeopardize gun-ownership, it's another thing to remove every safeguard in the world. I don't get why the hostility toward a safety. |
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:44 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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What proven safety are you refering to? The feel good do nothing approach like an ineffective GUN FREE ZONE or the one proven to save lives.  |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 11:47 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| The problem is that the thugs & nuts will not obey any law. Ban guns? They don't care, they'll still have them. Drugs are against the law, & their use and sale sure haven't stopped. The people doing these shootings just don't care. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 12:27 pm |
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Demeralda
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I didn't say proven safety. I asked why people hate a safety on a gun? It's not like it keeps you from using it.
You're right, the bad guys will find ways to get them. But then again, they're always going to get SOME weapon. That's what criminals do.
I hate the spur-of-the-moment crimes that happen because of so many guns.
I used to live with this guy who was really into his weaponry, and he had a 9 year old daughter. I remember once she said, "If my dad died or something, i'd go in there and break into his case and get his gun and shoot myself."
My point? I never even HAD such a thought as a child because we had no weapons.
I haven't looked it up, but I'd be interested to know how many gun deaths are murders vs. accidents. |
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 3:57 pm |
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twotap
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[quote]I asked why people hate a safety on a gun?[/quote I was not aware anyone did. All my firearms have one form or another of safety. The best safety in firearm usage is common sense, dont point a gun at something you dont intend to shoot, and treat everygun as if it is loaded. As far as the 9 year old, kids say dumb things all the time but it sounds like she may have had problems other than dad owning firearms. If I heard a 9 year old talking about suicide I would be very concerned.
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Teen Homicide, Suicide, and Firearm Death
Teen homicide, suicide, and firearm death rates declined overall from the mid- 1990s through 2004. (See Figure 1) However, suicide rates did increase slightly from 7.3 per 100,000 to 8.2 per 100,000 between 2003 and 2004.
Importance
Homicide and suicide are the second and third leading causes of death among teens ages 15 to 19, after accidental death.1 Firearms were the instrument of death in over 80 percent of teen homicides and about half of teen suicides in 2004.2 While almost one in four youth firearm injuries results in death, nonfirearm injuries result in death in only one out of every 760 cases.3
Although many murderers of teens below age 18 are teens themselves, two-thirds are age eighteen or older.4 Gang violence has been associated with many teen murders; in 2002 nearly three-quarters of homicides of teens were attributed to gang violence.5 While school-related homicides have received substantial attention, in the first half of the 1999-2000 school year they accounted for less than one percent of all child homicides.
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Mood disorders such as depression, dysthymia, and bipolar disorders are major risk factors for suicide among children and adolescents.7 One study found that over 90 percent of children and adolescents who committed suicide had some sort of mental disorder.8 Stressful life events and low levels of communication with parents may also be significant risk factors.9 While female teens are about twice as likely to attempt suicide, males are much more likely to actually commit suicide.10
Trends
Between 1970 and 1993, the homicide rate for teens ages 15 to 19 more than doubled from 8.1 per 100,000 to 20.7 per 100,000.11 The rate dramatically declined to 9.3 per 100,000 in 2002, where it remained in 2004. Trends in firearm-related deaths have followed a similar dramatic rise and fall, but continued to decline in 2004 to 12 per 100,000. (See Figure 1)
The teen suicide rate increased from 5.9 per 100,000 to 11.1 per 100,000 between 1970 and 1994,12 before declining to 7.3 per 100,000 in 2003. In 2004, that rate increased to 8.2 per 100,000, equivalent to the 1999 and 2000 teen suicide rates. (See Figure 1)
Differences by Gender
Males ages 15 to 19 are about three and a half times more likely than females to die from suicide, five times more likely to die from homicide, and about seven times as likely to die by a firearm-related incident. (See Figure 2)
Differences by Race and Ethnicity
In 2004, the homicide rate for black male teens was 54.8 per 100,000, 16 times higher than the rate for non-Hispanic white males (3.3 per 100,000). Rates for other groups were 25.8 per 100,000 for Hispanic males, 14.6 per 100,000 for American Indian males, and 7.3 per 100,000 for Asian and Pacific Islander males.
Among females, blacks also have the highest homicide rate at 7.8 per 100,000, compared with rates of 4.8* per 100,000 for Native American females, 2.9 per 100,000 for Hispanic females, 1.1* per 100,000 for Asian females, and 1.8 per 100,000 for non-Hispanic white females. (See Table 1)
Among males, suicide rates in 2004 were highest among American Indians (32.4 per 100,000) and non-Hispanic whites (14.2 per 100,000), followed by Hispanics at 9.9 per 100,000, Asians at 8.5 per 100,000, and blacks at 7.4 per 100,000. (See Figure 4) Among females, Native Americans had the highest rate of suicide at 13.7* per 100,000, followed by non-Hispanic whites at 3.9 per 100,000, Asians at 2.5* per 100,000, and blacks at 1.9 per 100,000.
Firearm deaths, which are responsible for a majority of teen homicides and suicides but also include accidental deaths, were highest in 2004 among blacks (55.1 per 100,000 and 5.9 per 100,000 males and females, respectively) and lowest among non-Hispanic whites (10.8 per 100,000 and 2.3 per 100,000 males and females, respectively), with Hispanics in between (28.0 per 100,000 and 2.7 per 100,000 males and females, respectively). (See Figure 5) Estimates for Asian and Native Americans were not available. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Fri Feb 15, 2008 4:36 pm |
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last time here
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just curious 2tap.
what do you conclude from this "Differences by Race & Ethnicity" study?? |
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Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:07 pm |
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twotap
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| I dont know LT but if ya look at it as it stands there sure seems to be something amiss with the young black males penchant for killing one another for no good reason. Lack of a strong male figure in the family might have some bearing. When the only male they can relate to is some thug rapper telling them that gangbangin is cool and the way to get the Escalade with the 22" rims is by dealin drugs or some other illegal activity it probably wont have a happy ending. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Mon Feb 18, 2008 7:40 pm |
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Demeralda
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And that wasn't a gross stereotype or anything.
It tells you nothing that I asked about, as it doesn't compare ACCIDENTS to murders. |
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:06 am |
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twotap
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| I believe my last resonse was to LTs question. What would be your theory for the out of proportion homicide rate among young black males ? An accident is an accident a murder is a murder. One was not planned the other was. Ever watch the "First 48" actual homicide investigations? That will probably help explain the difference. By the way interesting you used the word stereotypes because if there is one group in this country that has been stereotyped by hollywood, the media and the antigunnuts(which it appears you may becoming a fringe member of) it would be honest gunowners like myself. They claim we somehow have a connection to the gunviolence that occurs and if it were not for us or the NRA or gunsupport groups non of those events would occur. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:35 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| There have been guns in my house all my life. My kids grew up around guns. They have never been involved in an accidental discharge or a shooting. Outside the military, I have never fired a gun in anger. And yet, I am demonized because I own guns. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:47 am |
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twotap
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| Same here, and now its once again up to the 80,000,000 gunowners us GUNNUTS to do all we can to keep Hillary or Obama from occupying the whitehouse. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:55 am |
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last time here
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| well 2tap, i think the reason is a bit larger than "lack of a male figure". |
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:55 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| Well you asked and I gave one of the reasons I believe. No strong discipline. What do you think contributes the most to the problem.? |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:10 pm |
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