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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
reading your posts are like reading the national enquirer. get past
the wasted words and fluff, theres a story in there somewhere.
Well, judging by your comments, you don't seem to comprehend what is happening here in flint. It's almost as if you live somewhere else in the world and only get your information some sound bites from news programs and half read news articles online. Other wise I wouldn't give so much back ground. I just feel as if I'm having to give back ground on a book that I've already read that is the fourth one in a five book series. And your reading book two and don't understand all of what your reading because you didn't read book one.
quote:
The answer is still the same. We need to have a place to put these criminals. But, flint and genesse county has been reluctant to do so citing silly arguements about poverty and unemployment causing the crime. Therefore they don't want to incarserate criminals because of our living/social conditions
OK here are the lines in question.
I see nothing in there that says a thing about Judges and what they do? So how did you get that from what I said? |
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Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:07 pm |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:
"Therefore they don't want to incarserate criminals because of our living/social conditions."
I see nothing in there that says a thing about Judges and what they do? So how did you get that from what I said?
A judge is the one who sentences the criminal to incarceration. |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:34 am |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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OK, I still do not see it! Context! People that I know and respect say this. Our elected officials say this. I've been challanged on the Radio about this. It is not a JUDGES ISSUE. It is a overall attitude of the community as a whole. 'We need to entertain our young people so they won't commit crimes.' 'if I don't have a job, you'd better lock your doors' 'what should we just lock them all up?' 'there are no jobs to keep them from commiting crimes' 'they are living in poverty so they don't know any better' C'mon. These are all things that if you pay even slight attention. You'll hear a city council person say in some form or another. Or when the FLint Journal does a peice on crime in flint. You'll see an overwhelming amount of people talk about the reasons being there aren't any jobs. You poise the question in Public anywhere in Flint. See what your responses are. You ask a simple question. Should Flint build a bigger jail to get the criminals off the street? Watch how many people start giving you excuses as to why crime is high. They don't want these people off the street.
And again, Even though I didn't elude to Judges not wanting to send every criminal to jail. I think I did a pretty good job explaining that this is true! They are under constrants as to how many criminals are elligible to even be put in a jail. Many offenses that in other areas of the USA would get you sent to jail to be held. In flint would only get you an dissappearance ticket. To match the 15 or more you already had. They give young poeple so many chances and go out of their way almost to point them in the right direction. You make make people who don't want to do right. DO IT! |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 1:12 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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There's no incentive NOT to do crimes here. Appearance tickets are a joke. Jails are full. Nothing will change until there's surety of punishment.
Commit a crime, and you
WILL
be arrested and you
WILL
go to jail. We also need more officers with a stake in the city. How many of them don't live in Flint? How many respond slowly because they just don't care? |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:37 am |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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| Dave, that would definately help! |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:01 am |
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andyrm
F L I N T O I D
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| I guess the question we have now is, "How do we make the prison system a profitable enterprise and how can we build a model to sell to others?" More often than not, those who revert to crime and complain of no jobs, are usually lazy and would rather not work than to do the things necessary to find a job. If there are n o jobs here, then go elsewhere, don't revert to crime. Just so you know, there are jobs here. Maybe it's just not what you are accustomed to doing. Maybe it's a good time to go to school. There are grants and loans available. I'm not saying all unemployed criminals are just lazy. Some have become that desperate. Others have chosen the path of least resistence. |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:09 am |
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D
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[quote="Dave Starr"] We also need more officers with a stake in the city. How many of them don't live in Flint? [/quote]
Dave this theory has nothing to do with police response and attention to duty. The failing of this theory is part of the reason the state law was passed which did away with the residencey requirment for municipal employees. Work ethic is not derived from where you live. You either have a positive work ethic or you don't. There are officers in Flint who live outside the city who work 10x as hard as some officers that live in. The fact that some officers "just don't care" is just that....a fact. However, there are employees in all ranks and all types of work that are complacent and derilect in their duties.
The bottom line is that there is no simple solution to the crime problem in Flint. |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:03 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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A while back, there was a push to get officers to live in Flint. I remember Keith Speer saying there's no way he would have his family living here, and going to Flint schools.
You're right that there's no one easy answer. Some would be deterred by the surety of punishment. Some by jobs. For the hard core, the only solution is 6 feet of earth. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:59 am |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Bossman schreef:
quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
We also need more officers with a stake in the city. How many of them don't live in Flint?
Dave this theory has nothing to do with police response and attention to duty. The failing of this theory is part of the reason the state law was passed which did away with the residencey requirment for municipal employees. Work ethic is not derived from where you live. You either have a positive work ethic or you don't. There are officers in Flint who live outside the city who work 10x as hard as some officers that live in. The fact that some officers "just don't care" is just that....a fact. However, there are employees in all ranks and all types of work that are complacent and derilect in their duties.
The bottom line is that there is no simple solution to the crime problem in Flint.
Damn, I was going to argue in Daves Defense becuase there is some truth to "having more stake in the community if you live here." However, The hard facts are. We do have officers that do live here and don't care.
I can't argue that one. |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:23 am |
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Public D
F L I N T O I D
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How'd this discussion go from the Landbank to making money off prisons?
Oh well. Here's a champion idea sure to cost more Americans their job while saving Wall Street big bucks.
What's cheaper than paying a living wage, cheaper than paying minimum wage, cheaper than paying undocumented workers?
Eureka!
_________
America's Prisoners As Corporate Workforce
Gordon Lafer, The American Prospect, 1 September 1999
When most of us think of convicts at work, we picture them banging out license plates or digging ditches. Those images, however, are now far too limited to encompass the great range of jobs that America's prison workforce is performing. If you book a flight on TWA, you'll likely be talking to a prisoner at a California correctional facility that the airline uses for its reservations service. Microsoft has used Washington State prisoners to pack and ship Windows software. AT&T has used prisoners for telemarketing; Honda, for manufacturing parts; and even Toys "R" Us, for cleaning and stocking shelves for the next day's customers.
During the past 20 years, more than 30 states have enacted laws permitting the use of convict labor by private enterprise. While at present only about 80,000 U.S. inmates are engaged in commercial activity, the rapid growth in America's prison population and the attendant costs of incarceration suggest there will be strong pressures to put more prisoners to work. And it's not hard to figure what corporations like about prison labor: it's vastly cheaper than free labor. In Ohio, for example, a Honda supplier pays its prison workers $2 an hour for the same work for which the UAW has fought for decades to be paid $20 to $30 an hour. Konica has hired prisoners to repair its copiers for less than 50 cents an hour. And in Oregon, private companies can "lease" prisoners for only $3 a day.
But the attractions of prison labor extend well beyond low wages. The prison labor system does away with statutory protections that progressives and unions have fought so hard to achieve over the last 100 years. Companies that use prison labor create islands of time in which, in terms of labor relations at least, it's still the late nineteenth century. Prison employers pay no health insurance, no unemployment insurance, no payroll or Social Security taxes, no workers' compensation, no vacation time, sick leave, or overtime. In fact, to the extent that prisoners have "benefits" like health insurance, the state picks up the tab. Prison workers can be hired, fired, or reassigned at will. Not only do they have no right to organize or strike; they also have no means of filing a grievance or voicing any kind of complaint whatsoever. They have no right to circulate an employee petition or newsletter, no right to call a meeting, and no access to the press. Prison labor is the ultimate flexible and disciplined workforce.
All of these conditions apply when the state administers the prison. But the prospect of such windfall profits from prison labor has also fueled a boom in the private prison industry. Such respected money managers as Allstate, Merrill Lynch, and Shearson Lehman have all invested in private prisons. As with other privatized public services, companies that operate private prisons aim to make money by operating corrections facilities for less than what the state pays them. If they can also contract prisoners out to private enterprisesâ€
Gordon Lafer, The American Prospect, 1 September 1999
When most of us think of convicts at work, we picture them banging out license plates or digging ditches. Those images, however, are now far too limited to encompass the great range of jobs that America's prison workforce is performing. If you book a flight on TWA, you'll likely be talking to a prisoner at a California correctional facility that the airline uses for its reservations service. Microsoft has used Washington State prisoners to pack and ship Windows software. AT&T has used prisoners for telemarketing; Honda, for manufacturing parts; and even Toys "R" Us, for cleaning and stocking shelves for the next day's customers.
During the past 20 years, more than 30 states have enacted laws permitting the use of convict labor by private enterprise. While at present only about 80,000 U.S. inmates are engaged in commercial activity, the rapid growth in America's prison population and the attendant costs of incarceration suggest there will be strong pressures to put more prisoners to work. And it's not hard to figure what corporations like about prison labor: it's vastly cheaper than free labor. In Ohio, for example, a Honda supplier pays its prison workers $2 an hour for the same work for which the UAW has fought for decades to be paid $20 to $30 an hour. Konica has hired prisoners to repair its copiers for less than 50 cents an hour. And in Oregon, private companies can "lease" prisoners for only $3 a day.
But the attractions of prison labor extend well beyond low wages. The prison labor system does away with statutory protections that progressives and unions have fought so hard to achieve over the last 100 years. Companies that use prison labor create islands of time in which, in terms of labor relations at least, it's still the late nineteenth century. Prison employers pay no health insurance, no unemployment insurance, no payroll or Social Security taxes, no workers' compensation, no vacation time, sick leave, or overtime. In fact, to the extent that prisoners have "benefits" like health insurance, the state picks up the tab. Prison workers can be hired, fired, or reassigned at will. Not only do they have no right to organize or strike; they also have no means of filing a grievance or voicing any kind of complaint whatsoever. They have no right to circulate an employee petition or newsletter, no right to call a meeting, and no access to the press. Prison labor is the ultimate flexible and disciplined workforce.
All of these conditions apply when the state administers the prison. But the prospect of such windfall profits from prison labor has also fueled a boom in the private prison industry. Such respected money managers as Allstate, Merrill Lynch, and Shearson Lehman have all invested in private prisons. As with other privatized public services, companies that operate private prisons aim to make money by operating corrections facilities for less than what the state pays them. If they can also contract prisoners out to private enterprisesâ€
URL of original article:
http://www.prospect.org/web/page.ww?section=root&name=ViewPrint&articleId=4503 |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 12:26 pm |
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last time here
Guest
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uh, ted. a communities outlook does NOT affect a judges decision.
their mandated....  |
_________________
Guest post |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:51 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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Public D: That was great!
LTH... Where do you find this stuff? They are not mandated? Where did you get that? |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:01 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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Public D: That was great!
LTH... Where do you find this stuff? They are not mandated? Where did you get that? If I would have seen this post sooner I would have had a judge review what you've said and get his opinion. But he just left. |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:03 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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Public D: That was great!
LTH... Where do you find this stuff? They are not mandated? Where did you get that? If I would have seen this post sooner I would have had a judge review what you've said and get his opinion. But he just left. |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:03 pm |
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last time here
Guest
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lord help me
..........
this is a lost cause
.....
nevermind teddy
....
nevermind
. 
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_________________
Guest post |
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Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:07 pm |
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