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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Josh Freeman schreef:
Kind of funny.. you're mad at them for threatening to file a lawsuit.. so you threaten to file a lawsuit... Are you Don?
No, Josh, I'm not Don. I've just been very exasperated with all the "I'm not going to do anything" and similar statements coming from Kincaid (view on tapes of council meetings), with backup from Sims and Ananich, sometimes Poplar. And when I heard Kincaid make that statement on the ABC12 news I reacted when I should have waited until the later news results. I am sick of the lawsuits where there should be none, and the blatant promise of more. I said "maybe citizens of the city need to file a lawsuit against them and request their removal for failing to live up to their obligations" because things were not getting done that should be under their watch. As Ted says, sometimes we don't detect the note of sarcasm in another's post. Hopefully, with Buchanan as city administrator we'll see progress, and council will make a wise choice in appointing his replacement. |
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Tue Dec 11, 2007 8:36 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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I found this in a search. Terry documented this very well!
Friday, December 29, 2006
12/29/06
W-TRB
Your Morning News from Flint MI USA
Channel 12.5
Part of the TRB Broadcasting Network
Date:12/29/06
HEADLINE
Emerson to be State Budget Director
QUOTE OF THE DAY
"We always knew these Islamists weren't all they were cracked up to be. And now we are where they used to be, in control of Mogadishu - well, as much as anyone can be in control of Mogadishu." - ABDIRIZAK ADAM HASSAN, chief of staff for the transitional president in Somalia.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/12/29/world/africa/29somalia.html?th&emc=th
TOP STORY
Emerson to be State Budget Director
Here are portions of two articles from the Attorney General's website about City Council's pay being reduced, not eliminated, prefaced with source announcing Bob Emerson's upcoming appointment as Granholm's new state budget director. He was instrumental in the legal action being filed over council retroactive pay. Is it possible we'll see great changes in the state's budget? Emerson to become state budget director
By Melissa Burden mburden@flintjournal.com • 810.766.6316 Excerpt: Term-limited state Sen. Bob Emerson, D-Flint, will have a major new job in Lansing come January. Emerson will be appointed Gov. Jennifer Granholm’s next budget director, the governor’s office said today. See complete story in Friday's Flint Journal http://www.mlive.com/newslogs/fljournal/index.ssf?/mtlogs/mlive_flintjournalextra/archives/2006_12.html#219703
* * * http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-34739_34811-98650--,00.html
Cox Files Suit Against Flint for Illegal Pay Raise August 9, 2004 LANSING – Attorney General Mike Cox announced today a lawsuit against the City of Flint, the Mayor of Flint and specific members of the Flint City Council to compel the City Council to repay the more than $235,000 they illegally granted themselves by resolution on July 1, 2004. (snip)
In July 2002, a review team and an Emergency Financial Manager were appointed under the authority of Michigan law to manage the City of Flint’s financial crisis, which amounted to more than $20 million in debt. The Emergency Financial Manager took a number of actions to cure and correct the city’s financial condition, including four reductions in pay and benefits to members of the Flint City Council.
On July 1, 2004, the City Council approved by a 7-0 vote a resolution introduced by Donald J. Williamson, Mayor of the City of Flint, to grant themselves more than $235,000 in retroactive back pay and benefits that they collectively lost under the tenure of the Emergency Financial Manager, Ed Kurtz. The question was raised by State Senator Bob Emerson (D-Flint) and posed to the Attorney General regarding the legality of the resolution. Cox contends that their actions are illegal. (snip) * * * *
http://www.michigan.gov/ag/0,1607,7-164-34739_34811-118408--,00.html
Cox Wins Flint Illegal Pay Raise Lawsuit May 19, 2005 LANSING - Attorney General Mike Cox announced today that members of the Flint City Council must return to the city treasury more than $235,000 in illegal pay raises they granted themselves in 2004. On Wednesday, an Ingham County Circuit Court judge declared the raises violated the Michigan Constitution. (snip) . . .
As part of his plan to return the city to financial stability, Kurtz reduced the pay for City Council members. However, once the situation stabilized, Kurtz reinstated members’ pay to 95% of pre-emergency levels. Kurtz’s tenure ended on June 30, 2004. Less than 24 hours later, on July 1, the City Council voted 7-0 to grant themselves more than $235,000 in retroactive pay and benefits. Referred to the Attorney General’s Office by Senator Bob Emerson (D-Flint), Cox filed suit on August 9, 2004.
Ingham County Circuit Court Judge Joyce Draganchuk agreed with Cox that the City Council’s actions violated Article 11, Section 3 of the Michigan Constitution, which bars retroactive pay raises by elected officials. (snip)
posted to Flint Talk by 00SL2
http://www.flinttalk.com/post-7227.html#7227 |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:22 am |
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last time here
Guest
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looks like williamson attempted to "hook them up" as a nice gesture
after kurtz left but emerson objected to the move. it was litigated and
found to be improper. all that remains is for the city to be repaid if
demanded by the mayor right? |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:56 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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See to get the whole story. In the begining....
City council realised that budget numbers and figures where not matching. They knew we were going to be in big trouble. But because we have a "Strong Mayor" form of government. There information comes filtered through the mayor's office.
The city council banded together and lobbied the State of Michigan to step in. They did. Actually, more than what the council wanted. Then the state went to work on fast tracking some legislation so that Kurtz could get domination over everything that deals with money in the city. He put a hold on fixing streets (which was money already earmarked for fixing streets. State and federal money that could only be used for streets).
He then took on the extremely difficult job of rubber stamping the majority of the City Councils budget reccommendation. Minor changes for tax credits to the Flint journal and few other special interests. Yes, the City Council prepared and implemented the BUDGET that brought the city out of bankruptcy. Not Kurtz and "The DON" did not pay it out of his pocket!
Then Kurtz over stepped his authority and retailated agianst the Council by cutting their wages to a dollar. The State had to go back to work in order to create a new law so that what he did was legal.
Now the picture I see is that, The State, retaliated against the Council for Blowing the whistle on the former mayor's administration! See when your in government. Your all supposed to work together to protect what you have. Don't make waves, don't look out for the people. Protect your wages! Protect your power! They needed to be taught a lesson. How dare they bring this into the light and make us step in. If that happens, Maybe the Federal Government will take over Michigan and cut our wages to a dollar a meeting when we fail to balance our Budget. (Whatever happened to the whistle blower act?)
Now, because of the newly inacted legislation. Thier repayment of the wages they earned, now became illegal. See, this was attempted once before in Michigan and the state lost that case. Thus they needed to correct thier error. Now elected officials will be encouraged to sweep this stuff under the rug and keep thier mouths shut. DAMN IT MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO!! In fear that they will get thier pay cut to a buck if they bring too much attention to problems in Government. After all We are infalable in government. We now what's best for you. And knowing your being fleeced is something you don't need to know.
The god's honest truth is. The state fast tracked legislation so that the council would not be able to get thier "City Ordinance controlled" wages. So the state stepped in and overroad the City's charter. That's what the Law allowed for. That's how the state won and the Council lost.
The Mayor Don WIlliamson, brought the back pay resolution to the council and the majority voted for it. Then the Mayor began his campaign of "They're stealing your money". Right after the council voted to remove thier line item budget powers. Giving back full control to the Mayor. (idiots)
Warning to anyone in politics dealing with the Mayor. Beware, trojans bearing gifts. Jackie Poplar learned the hard way. Hopefully Daryl will be smart enough not to get caught up in it. I think he just might be.
I WONDER????? Can the fed's really step in and fix the states budget problem? What a novel idea! |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:13 pm |
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last time here
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well..i never heard the mayor had balanced the budget by giving his
own money. he's too smart a businessperson to do something like
that.
so, in a nutshell, the city was sinking, council and stanley couldn't
agree on anything so council asked the state in. kurtz arrived, did
whatever he did, took councils pay (why?), williamson was elected
and finished the job kurtz had attempted (fiscally) and continues
to clean up from the mistakes of the last 5 administrations ? right?
oh, the jackie poplar thing...what happened there?  |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:54 pm |
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Josh Freeman
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
00SL2 schreef:
No, Josh, I'm not Don. I've just been very exasperated with all the "I'm not going to do anything" and similar statements coming from Kincaid (view on tapes of council meetings), with backup from Sims and Ananich, sometimes Poplar. And when I heard Kincaid make that statement on the ABC12 news I reacted when I should have waited until the later news results. I am sick of the lawsuits where there should be none, and the blatant promise of more. I said "maybe citizens of the city need to file a lawsuit against them and request their removal for failing to live up to their obligations" because things were not getting done that should be under their watch. As Ted says, sometimes we don't detect the note of sarcasm in another's post. Hopefully, with Buchanan as city administrator we'll see progress, and council will make a wise choice in appointing his replacement.
I said this during my election.... rather than looking at the fact that there was all this bickering, why not look at what we were bickering about. The coverage from the media was about as deep as a mud puddle. They focused solely on the fighting instead of the issues. For instance, the federal grants. There were several agencies under contract to spend the money that was eventually lost. I had been advocating for well over a year that these dollars were going to be lost if we did not spend it. I convened public hearings. The council held investigative hearings. And you know what. In the end the citizens of Flint lost out on $1.4 million. The media instead wanted to focus on the "bickering." There are real issues that are being discussed. Budget, charter etc.
As the lawsuits go. I think that while I was on Council, we may have intiated 1 maybe 2, of the several lawsuits that were going on between the Council and Mayor. Even with the current hand-picked Council, I believe that the majority of the lawsuits have been intiated by the Mayor. In any case, if either side is doing something that violates the Charter, I expect that someone would go to court to stop it.
Kincaid was refering to the fact that there had been negotiations all day. An agreement had been met that was amiacble to both sides. At a late hour, just prior to his interview, the deal was called off. I believe that is what he was reacting to. |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:37 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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quote:
well..i never heard the mayor had balanced the budget by giving his
own money. he's too smart a businessperson to do something like
that.
That was one of his Campaign promises. I mean offers. When I talk to people on the street they still tell me that "The Mayor paid for the streets or balanced the budget" Niether of which is true.
quote:
so, in a nutshell, the city was sinking, council and stanley couldn't
agree on anything so council asked the state in.
Hmm, Sorta, but that's slanted. They couldn't agree because they, now as then, have to rely on what they are given by the administration. As far as money coming in and going out.
quote:
arrived, did whatever he did, took councils pay (why?),
Eactly, He didn't really have to do anything. Since the budget was already the budget that the former council made based on correct figures. Which BTW is the Budget that got us out of the takeover.
quote:
williamson was elected and finished the job kurtz had attempted (fiscally) and continues to clean up from the mistakes of the last 5 administrations
I'm sorry, but your going to have to help me understand what he is doing to fix the mistakes of past administrations. If Flint was at a 8.9 millioin surplus when he "TOOK OVER" how come we are at a 4.5 or less now? I guess you could point to the Sewer Suits. However, how does running the bill up 24,000 a month because he refuses to settle. Or the lawsuit from complete towing that we lost, Make fiscal sense. Or the lawsuit with Kearsley Golf View Estates that will again cost us millions. So i'm bit clueless when you talk about what he has fixed??
quote:
right?
Not really. The way you put it is there is some truth in there. But the basis for it is incorrect.
quote:
oh, the jackie poplar thing...what happened there?
She vowed to not approve any liqour licenses. Well she soon learned that she couldn't do that unless she had a good reason. So to save face. She tried to start a scholorship fund for high school graduates. And asked those guys trying to get thier licenses for donations. Now, before she did this. She consulted with the City Attorney on whether she could do that. As soon as she did. The administration started coming out with rumors about someone on the council selling votes and the state was looking into it. What was really funny. Is when she announced what she was doing and how she was doing it in City Council meeting. She got a standing ovation. No one (INCLUDING MYSELF) said a word. I had a little funny feeling. But Didn't think there was a problem. No one else did. Soon there after. She was giving the money back to the business owners and having to publically apologise.
Sounds like a set up to me. Esp, when you understand that had she waited. And asked for the donations at another time. Instead of at the same time she was talking to them about her vote. She could have legally right but ethically wrong. She was trying to do something that is so many times part of politics as usual. But, do it in the open as honest.
The City Attorney should have advised her before she did it. Since she went to them for guidence. |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:52 pm |
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Steve Myers
Site Admin
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Brevity Is The Soul Of Wit.
Please keep the quoting to a minimum.
Thanks
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Steve Myers |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:55 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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| Well I sure have a lot of Soul. But, I've never been accused of being witty. LOL |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:33 pm |
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last time here
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so your saying the mayor contributed nothing to flints recovery?
and your saying councils actions alone brought flint out of dire financial
straits?
is there proof neither kurtz nor williamson contributed ?
were any employee contracts still in limbo when kurtz left?
where is the document that says flint's budget was balanced prior
to williamsons reign? |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:50 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Don't you feel ripped off when city council refuses to take care of city business?
WHen have they refused. They've refused to act illegally! Just because the Mayor doesn't care about the law. Doesn't mean the Council shouldn't too.
quote:
See the news tonight? Two council members were absent from the meeting to vote for Darryl Buchanan for city administrator, and Kincaid was already commenting about suing for an illegal vote if Buchanan got the necessary five to approve the mayor's appointment!
See it's those statements that get me going. That was not what was reported! Kincaid did not comment about suing "IF HE GOT THE FIVE VOTES" He would have sued if Daryl Voted! Kincaid voted for Daryl! Did you actually watch the news??
quote:
They act like they would even defy an appeals court opinion.
Just because the Mayor does it. Doesn't mean the Council will too. |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:55 pm |
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last time here
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damn ted..you really have a hard-on for the mayor....why??
have you met him? 
all i know about him is what i've seen in the community. in warmer
weather i walk at forest park. it's beautiful, peaceful and has new
very well installed blacktop from start to finish. i see many seniors there and we do talk. they are thankful.
i also ride my old school schwinn from lippincott to carpenter and back.
i probably don't have to tell you how much better a bike ride is when your tires aren't bouncing from patch to patch. it's a beautiful and peaceful ride especially sundays!
all you have to do is drive by the impound lot to see the number of junkers and other vehicles that have been taken off the streets which is beneficial in terms of visible junk and vehicles used in crimes. robbers ain't gonna
walk too far in michigan winters!
there are places to take recycleables(sp).
several city unions have new contracts some of which had not been
negotiated in years.
people are actually building again downtown, and it's just getting started.
and many more things i could name. while it is true i know nothing of
the inner workings of city government, i don't really care as long as things
are getting done for the citizens of flint. i don't know him but i sure as
hell worked for, supported and voted for him..........again  |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:00 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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While some of that is true and the Don did actually have some impact on it. Much of it he had absolutely nothing to do with and has taken credit for it.
Crime, We are talking about someone who in three years. increased the manpower of the City Police department by almost 20 percent and the crime rate doubled! He has lied over and over and over again. Yet people still believe him. I cna only be lied to so many times before I will no longer support you. I was a big supporter when he was elected to first time. My company has had business dealings with him. (Not me personally) and he has tried time and again to rip them off.
You do not play politics with city services. He is the first Mayor to do so. I don't have time to go into complete details. But I can if you really want to. |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:50 pm |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
last time here schreef:
where is the document that says flint's budget was balanced prior to williamsons reign?
LTH, you answered a number of questions, and some of the answers you seek may be within the Appeals Court decisions. To help establish a timeline here are some dates. There are many other dates referenced in the opinions.
08/06/02 - James Rutherford elected to fill vacancy.
11/??/03 Donald Williamson elected as mayor. Sworn in on 11/10/03 but powers limited during term of Emergency Financial Manager until 06/30/04.
07/01/04 Williamson assumed power, and Council approved resolution introduced by Williamson to grant themselves retroactice pay.
* * * *
If you are interested in the history of the state's financial takeover of the City of Flint's finances and the Attorney General suing for repayment of council's back pay you will find detailed information and dates contained within the Opinions of the Michigan Court of Appeals. It will be enlightening to those who are uninformed and for those who seek a refresher of the facts giving rise to the legal action. [Also, note Emerson's role in getting the financial manager in here, and his current role as budget director for the State of Michigan which is now having its own budget problems that he/others in charge can't seem to get a grip on. Too bad Flint City Council can't act as the State's Financial Manager and cut the pay of those responsible for fixing the budget until it's balanced! (Being facetious, Ted!] 
Michigan Court of Appeals, For Publication, October 4, 2002, updated Copy January 3, 2003.
No. 243029 Ingham Circuit Court, Lower Court No. 02-001017-AV
Opinion (10-page Opinion in PDF format)
City Council of Flint, Darryl Buchanan, John Coleman, and Scott Kincaid, Plaintiffs-Appellees, v State of Michigan, Defendant-Appellant.
Source:
http://courtofappeals.mijud.net/documents/OPINIONS/FINAL/COA/20021004_C243029(52)_224O.243029.OPN.COA.PDF
Accessed: December 12, 2007
-------------------------
Michigan Court of Appeals, For Publication, December 13, 2005
No. 263618, Ingham Circuit Court, LC No. 04-001113-CZ
Official Reported Version (5-page PDF file)
Attorney General, Plaintiff-Appellee, v. City of Flint and Donald J. Williamson, Defendants, and Flint City Council, Peggy R. Cook, Ed Taylor, Scott Kincaid, Johnnie Coleman, Carolyn Sims, Mark A. Horrigan, and Darryl E.Buchanan, Defendants-Appellants.
Source:
http://courtofappeals.mijud.net/documents/OPINIONS/FINAL/COA/20051213_C263618_54_216O.263618.OPN.COA.PDF
Accessed: December 12, 2007
If you want to look up any other appeals court decisions go here and type in Flint as a party.
http://courtofappeals.mijud.net/resources/asp/fs.asp |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:53 pm |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:
Kincaid did not comment about suing "IF HE GOT THE FIVE VOTES" He would have sued if Daryl Voted!
Yes, I did watch the news, the comment I mentioned Scott Kincaid making was in a video aired on ABC12 for the 5 or 6 o'clock news. What they showed did not show him saying "if Darryl voted" or "if he got the five votes" but something about his suing if there was an "illegal vote." It is not on their website now or I would transcribe it verbatim. Maybe I could have worded more clearly what I understood at the time. I knew it would take 5 votes. Just as you reacted instinctively, so did I. If Buchanan had to abstain from voting, with 2 of the 9 members absent it would only take 2 to vote against him to defeat the appointment and who knew there was unanimous support among those present prior to the vote. As I said in a previous post, I posted my reaction to his comment too soon and should have waited until after the 11 o'clock news when it was GOOD NEWS. |
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Wed Dec 12, 2007 10:20 pm |
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