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twotap
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It was on the Flint school closing page.
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Schools don't come with political agendas. What they teach is students to think . They offer up varying viewpoints. That's the problem with private schools and home schooling. By design, they offer only ONE viewpoint. Sometimes it becomes difficult to distinguish between education and indoctrination.
By the way I am in no way trying to put down Deena. If we had more parents like her this country or for sure Flint would be a better place.  |
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Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:39 pm |
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Ryan Eashoo
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I agree twotap 110%...
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_________________
Flint Michigan Resident, Tax Payer, Flint Nutt - Local REALTOR - Activist. www.FlintTown.com |
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Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:51 pm |
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Tegan
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I haven't really been up to date on this thread, so I don't know if this is really relevant or not, but not all private schools are created equal. Just like public schools, some have a harder time controlling their finances than others. THe only difference (well not the ONLY one, but one of the most important ones) between a public and private school is that if a parent does not like the direction a PRIVATE school is taking, they can pull their child out a heck of a lot easier than if a parent doesn't like what a PUBLIC school is doing.
Home Schooling, I don't know enough about, but if someone believes that homeschooling and private schooling is indoctrination, I would make the same argument for public schools.
Don't get me wrong. I was a public school student and my children will most likely go to public school, but that doesn't mean that one is better or worse than the other. It all depends on the school itself and their Board of Trustees. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:57 am |
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twotap
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| And folks should be free to choose between them. Another idea that must be a good one since the teachers union opposes it with a vigor is Vouchers. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:02 am |
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Demeralda
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Here is her point. If you go to a public school, through the years you will have different teachers, principals, and fellow students. Even if one teacher has an ulterior agenda, it's not for a lifetime. And the sole purpose of the school is education.
With homeschooling, you have the same teacher 100% of the time for however many years. That means only one point of view influencing and forming the student's opinions.
With RELIGIOUS private schools, again, there's an agenda beyond simply the education, and the educators are all sharing in the common philosophy of the religion. Again, the student is not being confronted with contrary information.
The one big difference here is private schools like Andover or Exeter. Of course, no one I know in Flint is going to one of those.
Do you see the distinction now that she's drawing about diversity? Not just of persons, but of ideas. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:00 pm |
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Tegan
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those arguments are valid, but i would also argue, like I said above, that in a public school, there are times when students are still not allowed to learn about alternative views. And unforunately, its not always at the hand of one teacher, but the school system as a whole.
This is why, and I think you'll agree, that the best way to ensure a well-rounded and well-education child is to not completely rely on any school system to teach your child, but to teach and support your child yourself in addition to their school studies. Homeschooled kids should also be allowed to experience outside views, and many parents are good at doing this by joining homeschooled groups and going on field trips to the same places that public and private schools go....
its just that a few do a poor job... |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:11 pm |
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twotap
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[quote] That means only one point of view influencing and forming the student's opinions.
That would be the purpose of parents spending big dollars out of their own pockets (while still being forced to support a school system they choose not to use by the way) having their kids being educated in a manner of their own choosing. By the way students in public schools may or may not be given the opportunity to hear opposing views on any subject if the teacher so chooses not to allow them. As far as diversity the youngster will have plenty of opportunitys to find out about diverse life styles when they finally get out in the real world. Once again we get the My way or the Highway view some have about how to educate ones child.
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its just that a few do a poor job...
I have never seen any data about how poorly some homeschooled kids do as far as getting a good education but their are endless factual accounts of what a lousy job many public schools do. Another interesting point on this private vs public school debate is did you ever notice all those politicians who are constantly touting the virtues of the publicschool system (pretty much every Democrat out there by the way) but just cant seem to send their children to a public school but seem to prefer to go the private route. Well jeez if its good enough for the elitists why not the little folks as well?  |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:34 pm |
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Demeralda
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Does the hypocrisy of politicians actually surprise you at this point? That's totally what they do -- their kids are going to the uber-elite schools I mentioned above like Buckhingham Brown & Nichols, Exeter, et al.
On a side note, that was one of the things I did admire about Walling.
And finally, parents are entitled to choose the point of view from which their children are taught... to an extent. You can't homeschool and not give an actual education; a parent can't say, "to hell with math, I'm focusing on theology." They still have to take standardized tests.
I don't agree that all that diversity will happen in "the real world". It just doesn't for many people; they stay in the same circles of friends, same places they know, etc. If you take that exposure out of the educational setting, I don't know when or where people will be forced to interact with strangers or those of a highly different background. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:14 pm |
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twotap
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quote:
I don't know when or where people will be forced to interact with strangers or those of a highly different background.
FORCED?  possibly when they choose to. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:18 pm |
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Deena
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I am not sitting in judgement of either homeschooling parents or parochial education. They believe they are doing what is right for their childen--and that is, of course, their right. My husband and I ,however, believe in the diversity of a public school education as well as the diversity of city living. It is our responsibility to locate and support the educational program that best fits our beliefs.
That said, after raising three children with one still in the mix, I have yet to see any of these children influenced by a "liberal bias" in a public school. None of them. I would welcome any local example any poster can offer up.
My daughter has an elective this year entitled "Interactive Communications and Simulations".
http://ics.soe.umich.edu/main/section/5
As you'll see it is offered in conjunction with that "liberal bastion of education", the University of Michigan. Each student picks any character out of history or literature and "becomes" that character for a semester. In this role they debate timely topics in current events. It is my understanding that last semester's debate between Osama bin Ladin and Jesus Christ was a debate to behold. Diversity of political opinion? I can't think of a better manner in which to teach it.
I learned to sew an apron and made a letter opener instead. 
It's popular to blast public schools. I'm there all the time and I don't get it. What I see are dedicated professionals teaching in a vacuum created by a diminishing budget, too many uninterested parents, and with a government mandate that appears to assume all students must be headed for university. There's plenty of problems in American public education but few of them are in classrooms. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:29 pm |
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Deena
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quote:
twotap schreef:
quote:
I don't know when or where people will be forced to interact with strangers or those of a highly different background.
FORCED? possibly when they choose to.
We live in a diverse country. People SHOULD be "forced" to reach out to those differnt from them.
Here's a story for you. One of my daughter's suburban friends actually asked her "what black kids are like". I loved my daughter's response. The girls are athletes and compete in CANUSA each summer. My daughter described "black kids" as being a lot like their Canadian host kids. "You know, kinda different, but mostly just the same." I think that's a brilliant description of diversity---and it's why we moved back to the city. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:32 pm |
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twotap
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quote:
We live in a diverse country. People SHOULD be "forced" to reach out to those differnt from them.
Forced by whom the government? some elitist block club, local law enforcement. And who will decide just what is enough rubbing elbows with "Someone Different" Maybe we should have house to house monthly inspections to verify the fact that the occupents interacted with someone from a diverse group their could be little punch cards that need to have a certain no.of holes made by yup, a diverse group member. and if they discover the kids are home schooled force them to attend some brain washing camp to get their minds straight taught of course by members who may be foreign to them.  I believe it is becoming very clear why you have never observed any liberal bias in your kids education since they obviously already had plenty of it at home. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:49 pm |
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Deena
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:51 pm |
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Deena
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quote:
I believe it is becoming very clear why you have never observed any liberal bias in your kids education since they obviously already had plenty of it at home.
I'm still waiting for an example of such bias. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:11 pm |
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Demeralda
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You're grasping at the semantics of the word "force" and running away with it. I'm not suggesting anyone be FORCED, as in by gunpoint or laws, to do anything. You are forced to interact with strangers and others, however, if you live in a city: you don't get to choose who you ride the train with. Or who you ride the bus with. Or who is walking down the sidewalk. Same with college classes -- you are forced to sit and deal with people who are different.
The "real world" will burst the bubble for anyone/everyone; eventually we all are FORCED to deal with "the other". The only question is how prepared one is for it. Those who are used to diversity from school will, in my humble opinion, move through the world at least more aware and likely more smoothly.
My cousins all stayed in Flint, with no desire to leave or to learn about the world. They've never had a black friend, a Jewish friend, have no desire to, and yet still think they KNOW. This is why they're racist and full of stereotypes. Does the world really need more people like that?
Have you ever seen the John Waters version of the movie Hairspray? I'm always struck by the scene where Penny's mother has to walk through the ghetto to get to the record store, and a black guy pops out and asks her for a dime. She immediately starts screaming, "take everything, just don't hurt me!" All the black people in the neighborhood are laughing at her because she's so scared of them. And though it's a caricature, you see what I'm driving at. Only exposure enlightens people like that, because they sure aren't hearing it.
So yes, in that sense, I do think the more people are dealt a situation where they MUST COPE with something uncomfortable because someone is different from us, the better off we all are.
Kudos to Deena for trying to truly prepare her children for success in the world.
PS - I'm not saying this can't happen with homeschooling or private school. You just have to work so much harder at it. |
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Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:19 pm |
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