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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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http://www.mlive.com/news/fljournal/index.ssf?/base/news-35/114476884515510.xml&coll=5
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Councilman Ehren Gonzales has suggested appointing an ombudsman from outside the area who does not have any political or personal connections to City Hall.
"If you look at a lot of the names, it is quite apparent many have connections," Gonzales said. "They should be thrown out the door."
This has got to the Smartest thing I've heard out of City council ever!
Me Thinks Mr. Gonzales just became "The worthless puke!" That the former council people had become. if he keeps talking like this. We'll be running him for Mayor!
Personally, I'll argue a point to death unless someone comes up with a better argument. While, I never found any of his arguments against having an ombudsman to have weight. his argument as to who should be considered. Is very sound. I don't know what Jim and Sheldon are thinking.
Now if we can just get Mr. Gonzales to Publicly set the record straight on the 12 percent Crime increase in Flint for 2005. That the DON called a “MAJOR REDUCTION”. He can seal his fate completely. LOL He’d have to run for Mayor. The Mayor would never let him run again for Council. LOL It’s not “Teamwork” by Don’s definition to speak the truth. |
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Tue Apr 11, 2006 12:09 pm |
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Adam
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I consider myself pretty independent but I'm sure the council would not want me to be the ombudsman because I'm all about delivering results. Our attorney general also delivered results (forced council to pay back funds). That is over with but I still have an issue with the council failing to investigate issues that come before them such as botched police investigations and mistreated families. Without the council doing their jobs a single person can not run the office. With a fully functioning council and executive branch I think one person might be able to run the office which is NOT currently feasible. If I were the ombudsman I might try and force the council to use their power and handle citizens complaints like they have the ability to do. The Ombudsman office should not have to handle virtually every other complaint that comes to the council like it probably would have to currently. On a positive note I think the city council does an exceelent job of pointing people in the right direction or referring people to other places when it is not something under their jurisdiction.
Adam Ford |
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Tue Apr 11, 2006 2:56 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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| I'm kind of surprised not many poeple had much to say about this subject. |
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Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:53 pm |
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rapunzel
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People don't pay attention. They wait until the system has failed them to take note.(then complain) Those of us that watch and vote on "stuff" that will affect us pre-emptively have the responsibility to wake people up.
Not an easy job but someone needs to do it. |
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Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:23 am |
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Steve Myers
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The system fail a long time ago!!
No matter who is appointed it will not matter, the office is a joke! 
It is a big waste of money that could be better spent for law or fire protection. 
It is easy job but no one needs to do it, the last ombudsman poved it!  |
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Sat Apr 15, 2006 6:54 am |
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Adam
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| I imagine this ombudsman should do a lot more than the last. Binion did have a debilitating illness. Regardless, with a properly run city government the ombudsman office should be similar to a "Maytag repariman" if you will. With the city council not investigating citizens complaints though, I imagine the next ombudsman should have a flood of compalints to look into. |
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Sat Apr 15, 2006 12:48 pm |
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Steve Myers
Site Admin
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The ombudsman is only as good as the people that appointed him/her to the office.
Wake up Adam, an ombudsman in this city will make no difference. |
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Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:16 pm |
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biggie
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quote:
Adam schreef:
I imagine this ombudsman should do a lot more than the last. Binion did have a debilitating illness. Regardless, with a properly run city government the ombudsman office should be similar to a "Maytag repariman" if you will. With the city council not investigating citizens complaints though, I imagine the next ombudsman should have a flood of compalints to look into.
Regarding the last ombudsman, which has been somewhat of a mystery to me, does anyone know:
1. What the illness was [claimed] that prevented Ms binnion from performing her duties?
2. Why after so many years, wasn't a permanent or acting replacement named and Ms Binnion put on long term disability [and required to file for social security disability] and or retired if eligible?
3. What compensation did Ms Binnion receive while on disability? partial payment?
If she was off for X many years??? and there was no effective ombudsman, and no one from city government acted to redress the situation [meaning they saw no great loss, or impairment to city operations/services] and the people didn't force the issue, then, why the hell do people think we need the office now?...ok that last question is semi-rhetorical, I know the answer...people LOVE the THEORY of having a "peoples champion" to help tilt at at city govenerment when they are non-responsive or worse, abusive to private citizen's needs/issues. Regardless of whether they can actually help,,,its placating to to the little guy to believe they have recourse.....regardless of the reality. |
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Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:36 pm |
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okay mr biggie,
what would you suggest? if people need a champion than if someone is willing to be one, good for them as long as they are honest. the world was alot brighter when we believed in heros'
I don't see what it matters about why that person was ill, i do not even think most of the city understands what an ombudsman does. everyone got interested when they found out how much it paid..
would someone outside be better? maybe, do we want that money taken outside the city and spent..can't afford that...
any suggestion of solution anyone? |
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Sat Apr 15, 2006 1:59 pm |
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Adam
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Biggie
1. From what I've heard it is a mysterious unexplainable illness. From what Terry said Jessie Binion was VERY ill. There are undectable ways to cause that but I'll lay off the conspiracy theories. lol
2. Incompetence?
3. I'm not sure if she was getting the full salary but I know She was getting paid.
Steve,
If they appointed someone good it could put some pressure on some people to actually make a difference. I think me or Ted could have made a difference but then again were not a convicted felons still in the running. lol The Ombudsman doesn't have many "real" powers but I don't think people like getting subpoened. There is a slight chance the ombudsman could end up even finding criminal wrongdoing. In the end though I do feel it is the citizens that hold government accountable particularly voting citizens. The voting citizens of Flint felt we needed an ombudsman to hold government accountable. I'm still up in the air. Hopefully in the next 2,6 or 8 years we will no clearly no longer need an ombudsman to hold our government accountable but that remains to be seen. I don't think Williamson is doing a bad job but I'm a little nervous about our police and maintanance, and parks department heads. If it wasn't for those 3 departments I think we would be ok minus our business environment. You can have the best run city in the world but you do need jobs for people. |
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Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:23 pm |
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rapunzel
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quote:
Steve Myers schreef:
The system fail a long time ago!!
No matter who is appointed it will not matter, the office is a joke!
It is a big waste of money that could be better spent for law or fire protection.
It is easy job but no one needs to do it, the last ombudsman poved it!
as usual Steve you are not looking at the whole picture. It is a waste of money to pay for law protection that have no accountability. It is a waste of money to pay for fire protection when the hydrants are non-functioning. Now these offices SHOULD have accountabilty without having an outside office monitor them. The sad truth is they do not!~ Time and time again this has proof.
Now our firemen are complaining about the dept head. If you talk to the firemen they will tell you the water dept. is not addressing hydrant concerns. If you talk to a parent that has lost a child the police dept. has done a half assed investigation. The parent likely dropped the ball in the first place, still every murder deserves due diligence in investigation.
Why keep throwing money down a well? Until these system failures are identified nothing will be fixed.
We had a system failure with the ombudsman position also. That must be fixed or nothing else will be.
I do not think Binion was paid past an average sick leave pay. Like a maternity leave. There should have been an interim appointed. This was not done but we can not afford to throw out the baby with the bath water. When the baby needs care! |
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Sat Apr 15, 2006 10:56 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
It is a waste of money to pay for law protection that have no accountability. It is a waste of money to pay for fire protection when the hydrants are non-functioning.
I must be getting through to some. This is it in a nutshell.
quote:
Why keep throwing money down a well? Until these system failures are identified nothing will be fixed.
WHOA!! Right on the mark here also. What do we need more officers for? If we are going to get more of the same. We could have 1000 more officers. But if, the Dept is run the same way. Without accountability! The number of officers doesn't make a difference. Still. Even if they could make a difference. Where do we put all the criminals? The jails are full now! Do we now have police on every corner as a deterrent? That might work. But, can we afford it? Even so, If cities the same size as Flint. Can fight crime more effectively and have less officers and money, Why can't Flint?
quote:
If she was off for X many years??? and there was no effective ombudsman, and no one from city government acted to redress the situation [meaning they saw no great loss, or impairment to city operations/services] and the people didn't force the issue, then, why the hell do people think we need the office now?...
Do you work for Don Williamson? That is the same logic they used to buy Tahoes and Peterbilts for the City. Spending millions more for those vehicles, over buying more efficient, higher quality, safer, and less expensive vehicles.
Because, the city didn’t maintain Impalas or Internationals properly. That is not a legitimate reason not to purchase the same equipment. Same goes for the Ombudsman. Just because someone didn’t’ do the job effectively. Doesn’t mean we don’t need one!
Let’s take that one step further. Because the flint Police dept is ineffective, I guess we shouldn’t have them? No reasonable, thinking human being would make such a suggestion. But, if we apply that logic across the board. It fails any test of commonsense. |
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:08 am |
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quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:
Do you work for Don Williamson? That is the same logic they used to buy Tahoes and Peterbilts for the City. Spending millions more for those vehicles, over buying more efficient, higher quality, safer, and less expensive vehicles.
Ted, I notice anytime you disagree with someone, you tend to take it personally, and make ad hominen attacks. Why don't you just leave the personal questions out of the debate. i don't ask about your personal/professional life, don't ask about mine. Just focus on the content of the argument. And for the record, no, not affiliated with ANYONE in gov't.
[quote="Ted Jankowski"]Because, the city didn’t maintain Impalas or Internationals properly. That is not a legitimate reason not to purchase the same equipment. Same goes for the Ombudsman. Just because someone didn’t’ do the job effectively. Doesn’t mean we don’t need one!{/quote]
Maybe not, but the question wasn't answered. Ordering Impalas vs Yukons is not the same thing as questioning whether a fundamental government position will ever fulfill what you & others envision the way its configured. See IMO, no one missed it in government...soooooo, what do you think they will do even when they APPOINT the new one. If the mayor doesn't like the person, he'll simply direct the dept heads to not cooperate. Ditto, the council if they decide the "budman is out of line. Voila, instant impairment. After all, look how the mayor treated the last council vis a vis cooperation/information/participation etc.
quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:
Let’s take that one step further. Because the flint Police dept is ineffective, I guess we shouldn’t have them? No reasonable, thinking human being would make such a suggestion. But, if we apply that logic across the board. It fails any test of commonsense.
Well that one step goes beyond the pale. So IN YOUR OPINION the Police dept is ineffective...ok for discussion sake, lets assume that is a FACT; One doesn't get rid of it; one improves it. Maybe the "solution" is a combination of more/better personnel, different procedures/policies, etc.
We know we need policmen, the problem or breakdown is that there hasn't been anough of them. I am looking for some evidence that the problem with the ombudsmen office is the same.....I don't see any signal of that; at least from other elements of government. And the 'budman will not be operating in a vacuum, but in concert with the same governmental bodies that IMO, have been happy to ignore its existence for how many years?
That is my point. Obviously YMMV, and we can agree to disagree.
biggie |
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:21 am |
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Ted, I notice anytime you disagree with someone, you tend to take it personally, and make ad hominine attacks. Why don't you just leave the personal questions out of the debate. i don't ask about your personal/professional life, don't ask about mine. Just focus on the content of the argument. And for the record, no, not affiliated with ANYONE in gov't.
Personally didn’t see that as a “Personal” attack. Only that the logic being used is the same as the Mayor’s office. When I write I do try to be “Personal.” I'm very upfront and direct. Something in a world of hyper sensitivity and political correctness, finds arrogant. But, If your happy with the way the Mayor does things. Then how could that be an attack? I would not be offended if you said to me “Now your thinking like Mayor Stanley, or Joe Wilson.” I would have taken that to mean. I was starting not to make sense, and I needed to clarify something I said. Or maybe give some evidence. I wouldn’t have thought that a personal attack. Pointing out where you disagree and what the disagreement or problem is, I do not consider a personal attack.
quote:
Maybe not, but the question wasn't answered. Ordering Impalas vs Yukons is not the same thing as questioning whether a fundamental government position will ever fulfill what you & others envision the way its configured. See IMO, no one missed it in government...soooooo, what do you think they will do even when they APPOINT the new one. If the mayor doesn't like the person, he'll simply direct the dept heads to not cooperate. Ditto, the council if they decide the "budman is out of line. Voila, instant impairment. After all, look how the mayor treated the last council vis a vis cooperation/information/participation etc.
I believe the question was answered. And then you stated a good point, being “whether a fundamental government position will ever fulfill what you & others envision the way its configured.” Let me just say. That nothing ever seems to get accomplished in this city unless it makes the news. And even with the Control Don seems to have over the Flint Journal. The News is covering this and there is quite a bit of Public Debate. Even if we still don’t get a deceit, upright, miraculously effective Ombudsman this time around. Doesn’t mean we don’t need it, or should just give up and accept that it is becoming another appointment politically controlled by the Mayor. This mayor will not be in position the rest of his life, nor will this council. We still could get lucky this time. Also even do better next time.
quote:
Well that one step goes beyond the pale. So IN YOUR OPINION the Police dept is ineffective...ok for discussion sake, lets assume that is a FACT; http://www.cityofflint.net/crime_rate_comparison.htm
I do not need to assume that this is a fact. It is. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist or brain surgeon to look at the numbers and the dollars and guess that the Police are ineffective. Flint has 40% more police than other cities the same size. Flint spends almost 10 percent more on Police than cities twice our size. 10 percent is a lot of money when your talking millions of dollars. http://www.cityofflint.net/staffing_levels.htm
quote:
One doesn't get rid of it; one improves it. Maybe the "solution" is a combination of more/better personnel, different procedures/policies, etc.
Here, I believe you hit the nail right on the HEAD. I knew you’d come around to my thinking. (LOL) I guess what I and many others are hoping for. Is that the Ombudsman will do their job. By looking into complaints with the Police Dept and make recommendations. This is Flint’s BIGGEST problem. Without law enforcement, solving and reducing crime. Nothing is ever going to get better in Flint. Since the Mayor has refused to even acknowledge that there is a problem. He has even gone as far as to make up a “Major Reduction in Crime in Flint” in his 2005 state of the City address. Crime went up! It’s not my Opinion it is a fact! Easily looked up on the City of Flint website. I copied and pasted it to my website then created a graph. http://www.cityofflint.net/crime_rate_comparison.htm If it is NOT a fact that the Flint Police are ineffective. Then how come all those elderly people were killed by criminals that the Flint police could have easily caught much sooner than they did? http://www.cityofflint.net/another_one.htm Or why do they not know they had actually caught a criminal two years ago yet they refused to even talk about the case. http://www.cityofflint.net/Crime.htm Simple cases that can be solved with little or no effort http://www.cityofflint.net/one_way_works.htm or http://www.cityofflint.net/if_it_wasn%27t_so_easy!.htm If these were just isolated incidents I wouldn’t get all excited. But, it is accepted practice in Flint. So much so it isn’t even considered newsworthy.
Explain to me how they are effective when:
a. Police have video tape of criminals committing crimes but refuse to arrest the criminal.
b. Police can see evidence such as finger prints on a window of a home that was broken into yet they refuse to take finger prints.
c. Police KNOW where stolen guns have been hidden and have witnesses come forward, and they don’t go recover them until they been used in another crime.
d. Your car is stolen and they don’t even bother to check the car for evidence in the remote attempt that they might actually find the thief. (Then the city bills you for recovering your car being stolen)
e. Police know your stolen property is at the Pawn shop, They can get the person who pawned it, Identification.
f. Police show up at a crime scene where a shooting had just taken place and don’t even get out of the car or attempt to talk to the witnesses.
g. The parking meters in front of the City Hall and Police Dept were all broken into.
h. You go into the police dept to report an accident and the Officer behind the desk, doesn’t even put her yogurt down when she talks to the citizen paying her paycheck.
These are all documented incidences within the last two years or so. How? How can anyone even remotely believe or think? That the Flint police are effective in any way, shape or form. Especially, the most notable arrest was of a PAPERBOY at City Hall.
Now, do I blame it on the officers? Some of it. But, the main and most part of the blame and reason. Lies with the leadership that allows this to go on.
quote:
We know we need policemen, the problem or breakdown is that there hasn't been enough of them.
So what evidence did you base this on? That you would assume the “WE KNOW” that “WE NEED” more police officers? When you look at the amount of calls taken and the amount of crime. Just crimes would be 10% of the citizenry of this city. Add in calls, that don’t hit the stats or complaints that do not result in an arrest. Now we are pushing 27 percent of the city needs a police over a year. (I rounded the percents to the nearest 1) That’s outrageous! I don’t believe for a minute that Flint has anything close to 27 percent criminals or even 10 percent. I believe it is probably closer to 3 to 4 since. Criminals are routinely put back out on the street with probation or police never show up in the first place to do anything about the crime in the first place. http://www.cityofflint.net/abc_12_interview.htm Now, the police chief said “In just one year's time, the chief says the 40 officers have responded to more than 22,000 calls, tagged more than 4,000 vehicles and made nearly 7,000 arrests.” Considering that year according to the City’s Crime Stats http://www.cityofflint.com/police/Stat.htm Those 40 officers were responsible for 65 percent of the Crime Fighting in Flint. Which begs the question. What are the other 214 officers doing? I’m not making this up. Either I’m using bad numbers, or the Chief is, or the city is. I’m using their numbers. I’m not a fiction writer. If Flint had 254 officers that worked like these 40. We’d be the safest city in the US. No holes barred. But we don’t. More officers isn’t going to fix any crime problem Flint has. As long as we have the leadership we have in place right now. With no accountability. If there was just some accountability, it wouldn’t matter who was the Mayor or City council.
quote:
I am looking for some evidence that the problem with the ombudsmen office is the same.....I don't see any signal of that; at least from other elements of government. And the 'budman will not be operating in a vacuum, but in concert with the same governmental bodies that IMO, have been happy to ignore its existence for how many years?
Don’t get me wrong. I understand and somewhat agree with your Sinicism. You make very relevant points. When talking about effectiveness and working in concert with the rest of government. Maybe, I’m “Hoping” for to much. I guess to define the whole thing. Can the Ombudsman make a difference? YES. There can be no denying that he/she can. http://www.boiseombudsman.org/annual_and_mid.htm (just look at their crime rate) (they have fewer officers and more citizens per captia than Flint) Will the one chosen by Don make a difference? Or will the one chosen by Don’s Council? We will just have to wait and see. Do I believe Croome could have? Sure, As long as he didn’t hire an extortionist as his right hand man.
I had highlighted something Mr. Gonzales said. Which I believe be the best observation yet by anyone on the council concerning the Ombudsman position. That was really what I had hoped we’d be talking about on this thread. Not rehashing what we’ve already pretty much beat to death.
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:32 pm |
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biggie
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Ted,
Like I said, I know we will always talk past each other. That is why I can agree to disagree with you.
I have no idea if I or your behavior[s] are like Joe Wilson's or Stanley's much less what that means...i haven't a clue what you mean. Apparently you've characterized these people into some stereotypes of behaviors...but I don't know what those are. sorry.
You were right when I stated 'we know"...thats a mistake. I can only offer to speak for myself. So I restate..."I believe one improvement mode would be to increase the police presence on the street" I'm less certain improving the presence of the 'budman would do anything to reduce crime.
BTW, where do you get the idea that the 'budman would go ranging off into studies of the efficacy of the police department and be presenting white papers on major strategic policy changes/improvements regarding the Police dept? My take is that its a place for the common citizen to go when city services are less than responsive, or when one doesn't know exactly how to the engage the goverment machine.
I think having/needing an ombudsman position is tantamount to admitting we have an incompetent, overblown bureacratic, unresponsive government. Now that may be true, but an ombudsman is merely another bureacracy bandaid to address the symptoms, not a root-cause solution...fix the original mess.
In any event. I doubt a patronage-appointed 'Budman can be what you and others envision......for the reasons I expressed earlier..to easy to "freeze" that person out of being effective if the other power centers don't want to cooperate....and remember the dog will be loathe to bite the hand that feeds them [the council].
put me down clearly in the camp of skeptics, and clearly not in the "Budman = Don Quioxte, tilting at windmills as in "improving the efficiency of operating departments" camp.
biggie |
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Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:05 pm |
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