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FlintConservative
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The Governor gets her way...an 11% increase in the income tax and sales tax on some services...to the tune of S1.35 BILLION. But the good news is they're going to find $435 million is spending cuts. Really. They promise. Honest. Pinkie swear.
At least we avoided that state shutdown that no one was going to notice anyway.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071001/NEWS06/710010329 |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:44 am |
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
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| Sales tax on astrologers, gyms, health clubs, ski lift tickets, etc., but NOT on golf course greens fees. I didn't know there was a golf lobby. |
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I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 9:54 am |
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Public D
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Great article from Jack Lessenberry awhile back, but still true:
http://www.metrotimes.com/editorial/story.asp?id=10100
You get what you pay for
by Jack Lessenberry
1/24/2007
Sometime in the next few weeks, Gov. Jennifer Granholm will almost certainly ask the Legislature to find a way to raise taxes. And she damn well better, or she should be removed from office for dereliction of duty.
We have to save Michigan. Raising revenues is absolutely necessary if we are to keep the essential services going that will allow the state to continue to be a decent place to live. The state has been cutting taxes, often irresponsibly, for years, thanks to selfishness, greed and cracked-brain ideologies.
Now the bottom is falling out, thanks in large part to the slumping auto industry. If we have any hope of attracting the high-paying, high-tech jobs of the future, turning ourselves into Mississippi or Haiti (i.e., a low-tax, low-wage place without decent public services) sure the hell isn't the way to do it.
Taxes sound terrible, I admit. We've been brainwashed to think they are always bad. But what do you think pays for the water that makes the toilet flush? What do you think paved the freeways and paid to teach you how to read this column? Taxes, that's what.
You should thank God for taxes, every time you have to go to the potty in January. True, Neanderthals never had to pay them. But outside the Legislature, there are precious few of them left.
Civilization costs money, and is worth it. Yes, we need to at least maintain the quality of schools that need to be even better, and not cripple our universities.
You can be for taxes and for private enterprise and getting rich. You need both a flourishing private sphere and a functioning, healthy public one.
By the way, lots of lies are being told, mainly by opportunistic Republicans, about bloated state government where spending has spiraled out of control. Matt Milosch, a former state representative from the Monroe area who has lost the last two elections (Earth to Matt: We just don't want you!) is circulating a petition to try to stop any tax increase.
Yes, taxes can sometimes be too high. Right now, they are dangerously low. Last week Liz Boyd, the governor's press secretary, noted that "since 1999, Michigan has approved or enacted $1.4 billion in tax cuts."
That doesn't include, by the way, the $1.9 billion that will be lost starting next year unless the Legislature replaces the Single Business Tax, which the Republicans abolished last fall in a failed attempt to pander to the voters.
Why is the state in trouble? The best place to go for answers is the nonpartisan, nonprofit, nonideological Citizens Research Council of Michigan.
Last year it put out a responsible memo analyzing the mess. Part of the recent crisis is indeed inflamed by the layoffs, buyouts and plant closings.
But in addition to that, the government is suffering from "self-inflicted" wounds, caused by an orgy of tax cutting. "The state reduced tax rates, failed to offset negative effects on state revenues created by federal tax changes, and cut other state taxes," so to speak, by adding new exemptions.
Two weeks ago, the governor asked a bipartisan council of a dozen wise men, including two former governors, one from each party, for recommendations.
She was heavily criticized because the Emergency Financial Advisory Panel didn't include any howling right-wing nuts. Good for her. Guess what. It didn't include any Trotskyites or members of al Qaeda either.
They will make recommendations within a week. Want to know what the easiest and most practical way of solving this problem would be? Extend the sales tax to services — not including medical services. That means haircuts, fixing your lawnmower, having a muffler put on your car, etc.
Experts say if you did that, you might even be able to lower the sales tax from 6 percent to 5 percent. When I asked several people what they thought about that idea, most said they thought they were already paying taxes on those kinds of things. Pressed against a wall, most Republicans will reluctantly conclude they could stomach a sales tax before an income tax.
But then there was a baffling nonsense story on the front of Gannett's Detroit-less Free Press Sunday, a pile of distorted garbage that is incomprehensible ... until you realize that Gannett's strategy is to pander to the right wing occasionally, while being generally moderate on the editorial page.
Sunday, the Detroit-less product had a moronic front-page story (with little cute illustrations!) that said raising the sales tax could cost Joe Consumer an extra $36.79 a day. Sounds pretty horrible. Till you read the idiocy that follows.
Their "typical day" includes paying $100 for a haircut, $95 for child care and $50 to rent a limo to enjoy an $80 seat at the Pistons game.
Sheeeeeit. Even most of the finer pimps I know don't live like that, except on Saturday nights. When you look at the story more closely you can figure out what the paper's real problem is: Extending the sales tax would also add three cents to the cost of the daily fish wrapper they sell. With circulation falling by thousands every month, they feel they can ill afford to lose any single-copy sales.
Fortunately, there is a solution. Extend the sales tax, with an exemption for products of negligible intellectual value. The state will be saved, and the Free Press will die perhaps a little more slowly.
But seriously, we have to do something. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, and we thank you in advance on behalf of common sense. |
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http://www.toomuchonline.org/index.html
http://www.hr676.org
http://www.pnhp.org/publications/the_national_health_insurance_bill_hr_676.php |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:14 am |
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Adam Ford
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Yes Public D you do get what you pay for. Big government.
I think we should go with a partial shutdown in government and repeal the state income tax.
I think it's worth the risk to follow the Texas/Florida model of small government, no income tax and jobs and people moving in.
Yes these state may not have all the government "immeneties" of a poor state with a big government but they make up for this governmental sacrifice with things like mansions and nice cars gated communities and various other luxuries that the people themselves pay for.
According to:
http://recenter.tamu.edu/econ/
Texas has more than double the job growth as the nation as a whole.
According to [url]http://cb s4.com/business/local_story_019133656.html[/url]
"There was continuing good news for Florida's economy in December, as the state's unemployment remained at 3.3 percent in December, unchanged from November, but across the state, the growth in new jobs in 2006 was nearly double the national average."
According to:
http://www.taxadmin.org/fta/rate/ind_inc.html
Texas and Florida have no state income tax.
I admit I am curious what you would define as "essential services".
Last edited by Adam Ford on Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Adam Ford
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:44 am |
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D
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Michigan is going down hill fast, I am sick and tired of politicians in general.. It doesn't matter if they are Repulican't or Demodonothings.
More Taxes,,, More Services! This is ridiculous, how do they expect to compete with other states? How can Michigan be cool when people are making less and over taxed??
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Flint Michigan Resident, Tax Payer, Flint Nutt - Local REALTOR - Activist. www.FlintTown.com |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:48 am |
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Ryan Eashoo
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Well, the republicants sure did go along with it didn't they? I hope someone files a lawsuit blocking this anti business practices..
quote:
FlintConservative schreef:
The Governor gets her way...an 11% increase in the income tax and sales tax on some services...to the tune of S1.35 BILLION. But the good news is they're going to find $435 million is spending cuts. Really. They promise. Honest. Pinkie swear.
At least we avoided that state shutdown that no one was going to notice anyway.
http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071001/NEWS06/710010329
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Flint Michigan Resident, Tax Payer, Flint Nutt - Local REALTOR - Activist. www.FlintTown.com |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 10:49 am |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Ryan Eashoo schreef:
Well, the republicans sure did go along with it didn't they? I hope someone files a lawsuit blocking this anti-business practices..
From the state Republican chairman:
http://migop.blogs.com/blog/2007/10/articles-of-int.html
"With the support of both Jelinek & Garcia in the Republican Senate the dems were able tp pass the tax increase."
"House Democrats (joined by ONLY 2 Republicans – Gaffney & Ward) passed an increase in the income tax to 4.35 from 3.9 on almost a straight party vote of 57-52." |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:35 am |
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Public D
F L I N T O I D
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:57 am |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
Sales tax on astrologers, gyms, health clubs, ski lift tickets, etc., but NOT on golf course greens fees. I didn't know there was a golf lobby.
you forget the favorite activity of lobbysist entertaining and schmoozing legislators is golf.
you get to spend a long time, in a social setting where you've developed a rapport and obligation [paying the greens fees, food, drinks] and time to explain your lobby's position.
off course that one was off the table. |
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Biggie |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:57 pm |
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FlintConservative
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When is enough Public D?
Tax collections in the State of Michigan General Fund for the year ended 9/30/03 were $10,214,450,000. For the year ended 9/30/06 they were $11,809,223,000, for an average annual increase of 5.2%. That's not enough?
Total expenditures (again, General Fund ONLY) went from $21,742,102,000 to $23,113,264,000. Where are all these cuts we've made?
The real problem is that they spend everything we give them with no accountability...and then want more. And more. And more.
And as for the water....first, I have a well. Second, taxes used to pay for city water...until politicians decided they could charge user fees for the water and spend the tax money on other things.
The population of our state is estimated at 10.1 million (roughly) at census.gov. That makes total expenditures almost $2,300 per person. I think that's excessive. |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:12 pm |
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FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Ryan Eashoo schreef:
Well, the republicants sure did go along with it didn't they?
No, they didn't. |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:27 pm |
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andi03
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Wowzer Flint Conservative give you kudos for doing your homework.
I think that I would have to kind of echo, notice what I said echo about Ryan's first statement. That being the overall attitude of "geez, I have had enough". Fingerpointing can only be done by those that are elected, House, Senate, and Governor. I like the Governor and all, but.
There were deadlines for the budget to be accomplished, submitted, debated about, and sent forward for approval. I do believe that they had 8 months to accomplish this as set forth per the Governor's request.
What is the stat? Michigan is only one of 3-5 states that have full time legislatures? The elected officials couldn't come up with a plan?! Oy, I am furious. Time to get their heads out of their..............um, sandbox, yeah, yeah.
So while they play he said she said, with the Republicans and Democrats, we, the people, shouldn't be sucked into the proverbial scenario of childhood playground games. We should hold them all accountable since the government is supposed to hold ALL of the state's interests at heart by getting things done. Which evidently they didn't and didn't think about the ramifications of their actions, along with the strong arm tactics by the Gov. No one is innocent in this one.
If my husband and I can't reach an agreement over our budget, do I put a lock on the fridge door and refuse to cook dinner? My husband and I work on our home's budget, yet the elected officials, all of them couldn't work on our home's budget?.......Michigan.
This post is NOT to lambaste your points of view, nor anyone's, that is not the tone of the message at all, there is no "snarkiness" here.  [/b] |
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Build a bridge and get over it! |
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 2:24 pm |
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Adam Ford
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quote:
Public D schreef:
That's completely naive and dangerously simplistic . . . as are most Libertarian dreams of a great utopian society where a postmaster general governs residents without needs, other than stamps, all thanks to the selfless deeds of kind-hearted free-market capitalists. Please.
Texas makes up for its lack of state income tax with, you guessed it, more taxes on more things administrated by, yep, more government agencies.
http://www.texaskaos.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=4003
Florida lives off tourists, but even Mickey Mouse can't come up with enough cheese these days. Really think Michigan can attract more tourists than Goofy, Adam?
http://www.hendersonvillenews.com/article/20070727/NEWS/707270322
I agree. The only essential service a society needs is mail delivery. It'll be the quaintest little goverment this side of Oz.
[/i]
First off we did have this utopian society in America. We typically only had an income tax to fund wars.
You could have federal tarriffs instead of a federal income tax for the federal government. The state would still have the sales tax and property tax and lottery tax, gasoline tax and revenue sharing from the federal governemnt to pay for things like police, prisons, schools and roads.
I think the Floridians would definately take their situation verses Michigans. Although they may be having budget problems I would bet it is not as severe as Michigans. If you do the research this is only the beginiing of Michigans troubles. Although we could 'fix" things by doubling the tax rate I do not feel that is a good solution.
I have seen figures that show we could eliminate the federal income tax if we didn't have the budget deficit, or the federal government regained ownership of our money from the federal reserve, or we went back to the year 2000 federal spending. If neoconservative Bush and neoconservative Republican would have decreased government instead of dramatically increasing it we would not need the federal income tax.
Florida does have more than just tourists. They also have those greedy Republicans that flee down there with there hoards of cash to spend and to start up businesses with which creates jobs.
Unfortunately though the reality is our taxes are much to low to fund our government programs. From figures I've seen we are
only
paying about 50% of our incomes to the government. This is simply to low to be able to support all the socialistic programs/debt payments etc. To be able to fund things in the future we would probably need to douple the federal income tax.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-08-02-deficit-usat_x.htm
The real scary thing is though when we had the great depression we able to start these social welfare programs. What would we do if we had another crisis? Our safety nets are already maxed out. I think we need to make tough cuts now before it is too late!!!
http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat.htm
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Mon Oct 01, 2007 3:29 pm |
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Adam Ford
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Fri Oct 05, 2007 8:59 am |
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FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D
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I'm still waiting for the $435 million in spending cuts.
Lawmakers still differ on budget plan$430 million needs to be trimmed
ABC12/AP
LANSING, Mich. (AP) - - (10/24/07)-- Roughly a half-dozen key areas of disagreement remain among lawmakers trying to balance the state's budget before next week's deadline to avoid another potential partial government shutdown.
There's a lot of work to be done at the Capitol.
But both Democrats and Republicans said Tuesday they were hopeful differences would be worked out before the October 31st deadline.
A key area of dispute is who will be covered by Medicaid and how much doctors will be paid to treat them.
Another key area is fees charged by state departments covering natural resources and the environment.
Lawmakers must cut more than 430 million dollars from the budget.
http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=state&id=5723503 |
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Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:54 pm |
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