| Author
|
Post |
 
|
|
flintteach
F L I N T O I D
|
An essay written by niece (who attends MSU). She entitled it.. Read this you urine sample, I LOVE FLINT !!!
Plant #36
After reading "Rivethead" I laid on my bed in disbelief. I was stunned and I cried. In my mind, my dad Marty was Ben Hamper and my mom and I played the part of the "GM family". We were the "rivetheads" of that city a.k.a. Flint, Michigan. I even wrote an e-mail to Ben Hamper and expressed how much his book was my life and what he wrote about GM I could relate to. I loved his book and all the pain and anger I had towards GM could finally be felt by others who had first hand knowledge. I thanked him and told Ben of what had happened to my dad. He wrote back to me and indicated that I wasn't alone in this fight against GM. Those words in that e-mail will always be a part of my life and provide guidance when I need it. Professor Cullum-Swan thank you inviting Ben Hamper into my life. This is my "Rivethead" story and I hope you enjoy it as much as I enjoyed reading the original.
My dad, Marty, was a proud and loyal member of Local #599. He was one of the "Buick boys" or "rivetheads" of Buick plant #36, Flint, Michigan. He was General Motors through and through for over 33 years. My dad started working at GM on February 13th, 1969. As he always said "It was Vietnam or Buick". To this day I wonder what would have been worse? He graduated from Flint Southwestern in June,1968. He married young (not my mother Laurie) because his first wife was pregnant. He was working for the Flint Golf Courses and also attending school at Mott ( Flint Junior College). The pay was nothing compared to GM. So, he did the American dream. He quit college and at the golf course (even though he said it was the best job he ever had) and started working at Buick. On February 13th, 1969 he officially became a "rivethead".
The ironic part is that my dad was the FIRST and ONLY person in his immediate family to work at GM. He wasn't the 2nd or 3rd generation "shop rats" as the many men and women he had worked with were. His father, Tom, was a teacher, coach, principal and A.D. at Flint Southwestern High School. His mother, Fran, was a kindergarten teacher at Martin Luther King elementary school on the north end of Flint. (where she taught school the white people were afraid to walk or even drive in that area.They were afraid and even more so today.) She started the Head Start program at this school and even took a pay cut to teach in this position. The oldest brother Burt graduated with honors from The University of Michigan in Ann Arbor with a B. S. degree in Nuclear Engineering. He worked at IBM in Raleigh, NC and traveled and lived in Europe, Asia, Japan and China. He is now retired from IBM and writes for National Geographic. The second brother Vic graduated from Michigan State University with honors with a B. A. degree in Accounting/Business. He still works at IBM in Raleigh, NC. The oldest sister Roberta graduated with honors from Central Michigan University with a B. A. degree in Political Science and worked and retired from the State of Michigan. A second sister Margie graduated with honors from University of Michigan-Flint with a B. S. degree in Nursing. She is still a nurse at Hurley hospital in Flint. Then, of course, there is my dad Marty. High school diploma (barely graduated-mainly because his parents were teachers in the district) and about five weeks of college under his belt. BUT........he was the"shop rat" of the family. And God damn did he love that title!!!!!
I can recall as Ben Hamper does in his book of all the stories of GM. What Ben writes about is what my dad told to me while I was growing up. The countless stories of the men and women who had affairs with each other spouses and after wards went out for happy hour at the Dort bar. The parties inside the plant with food, liqueur, drugs and kegs of beer on the assembly line while strippers performed. There were parties for every occasion. Flag Day, deer hunting season, and my personal favorite "cuz it's a Tuesday". The endless supply of beer never ended. If by chance it did they would just leave work and buy more at the local party store or bar. They drank it in the parking lot, assembly line or as my dad always said "Any damn place we wanted to!!" It (beer, drugs, and sex) was available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year. I now have a true understanding as to why my father had (7) seven drunk driving arrests/convictions in (5) five different counties in a 15 year period. Also, I can see why his first marriage lasted just under 3 years.
My dad was one of those "drunk shop rats" that my non-working GM aunts, uncles and grandparents tried unsuccessfully to convince me he was. But I new my dad and he wasn't that EVIL HITLER, ANTI-CHRIST that those people tried to make me believe he was. My dad was my dad. He is my hero. I love him and he loves me. He wasn't that overpaid, uneducated, alcoholic, skirt-chasing whore that they wanted me to believe he was. No way....Not ever!!!!! To me he was the man who drove four hours in a blizzard from Grayling back home in Otter Lake to watch me play basketball in 7th grade. He was the dedicated father who NEVER once missed one of my sporting events when I was in middle or high school. My dad was the man who taught me to drive my first car. He was the man who taught me how to swim, cast a fishing line and shoot a gun. He taught me how to love myself and NEVER judge others. He made me the person who I am today. In my eyes he wasn't that "drunken rivethead" but a beautiful and kind soul. HE IS MY DAD.... "THE RIVETHEAD DAD."
During Thanksgiving weekend we were all driving up to the cabin in Fredric to enjoy a long weekend of hunting, riding quads and stacking empty beer cans until they fell or my dad stumbled into them. After WJR radio station out of Detroit finally faded (about the Zilwaukee bridge area) and my dad working on his 5th Busch Light beer is when the "adventures of Buick Plant #36" began. The story I will never forget is of my dad's second shift foreman. At his plant they didn't have a time clock but relied on an "honor system" with your foreman. This elaborate system consisted of the workers (my dad included) was to either make eye contact or speak directly with the foreman. WELL........ considering the fact that his foreman was the first one to arrive at Andy's Bar on Dort Hwy. and the last one to leave needless to say my dad NEVER had a problem putting in a 40 hour work week. My personal favorite was when my dad would run into the engine plant and I would sit out in front in the parking lot with the truck still running while my dad "worked his eight hour shift". He would give me his watch and I timed him. I would watch from the passenger window as my dad entered the half-painted brown metal doors and that is when the official time began. We kept a log and he would write down the times. It was like an Olympic event with us!!! I will never forget his "world record" (as he put it) record setting time of 6 minutes,18 seconds!!!!!
And....getting paid for 8 hours. I thought "what a great life we have!!!!" However, deep down I knew what my dad was doing was wrong and he truly knew it was wrong but never once told me so. Hell, after he bought me McDonald's all was forgotten. It's amazing what the golden arches can cure!!!!! I got McNuggets and he got a 12 pack of Busch light in cans from Arab Mini-mart on the corner of Dort Hwy. and Franklin. Life couldn't been sweeter!!!! As I am now in college and look back at what we did it seems so unbelievable. It feels like a dream. But it is all so real and the scary part is that I wasn't the only kid sitting out in the circle parking lot in front of Plant #36. I was just the only kid sitting in my dad's truck. All the others had their own watches and dad's to keep track of..........
Fast pitch softball and Angelo's Coney Island (both on Franklin Street) was General Motors. I loved going to watch my dad play softball. He didn't play slow pitch softball he played fast pitch softball. Why? Because real men play fast pitch. He always said it was a hard sport to play and the hard is what made it fun. If it was easy than everyone would play. He always had a way with words. That is why EVERYONE loved my dad. The "rivethead dad". It was the best part of my summer. My dad was a pitcher and a damn good pitcher. He wore #13. This number signified the day on February 13th in 1969 of which was the first day he started working at Buick. He was loyal "shop rat." After the game was done we stayed and watched other games. On these fields is were I learned to play sports. After wards, we would start our journey back to Buick plant #36 ( 5 minutes if beer and ice was in the cooler/15 minutes if we had to stop for a beer run.) In that parking lot I once again became that Olympic judge sitting there keeping score for my dad.
The stories about the people he worked with and the names they were called were classic. The one were this man told his wife in Arkansas he was going for a loaf of bread and would be right back. Well.......he drove to the store but after getting the loaf he kept driving and eventually landed in Flint and got a job on the line. My dad said he never found out what ever happened to the wife or that loaf of bread though. Or, the story of this guy named Bob who was drunk and walked out in front of a city bus and got ran over. He was off work for over a year. When he got back to work he was never called Bob again. Due to the fact that one leg was 3 inches shorter ( It was measured when he was passed out at work and found sleeping so peacefully in a broom closet) and now he walked with a limp. His new name was "stone in his shoe" or "stoney" for short. Another heart warming story was this guy (can't remember his name) and he found out his wife was cheating on him with another "shop rat". He was terminal with cancer and knew he had less than 6 or 8 months to live. As long as he was alive he wanted her to stop seeing this other man. She wouldn't and she also refused to divorce him. She wanted the life insurance, his pension, her boyfriend and the house (he had credit life on it) so when he died of natural causes she would get all of it. Instead, he did the next best thing. He shot himself dead in front of her. By killing himself she didn't get any life insurance and credit life didn't pay off the house. She lost the house and the other man she was screwing left her but did get the dead husband's pension. I suppose 1 out of 4 isn't bad..... The countless stories of gambling was scary. Men he had worked with who made $60,000 or $80,000 a year, got paid on Thursday and were broke by Monday morning. These men living in shit $39 dollar a week hotels and hitch-hiked or bummed rides from fellow workers to Buick just so they had enough money to gamble it all away within days of being paid. To this day I still wonder what happened to these people of Plant #36 and does anyone even really care?
Dad always said GM was good to him and to all those who worked for GM. Great pay, nice home, cabin up north, new cars each year, health benefits and an awesome pension. Just a few more years and he was outta there. There were times when he became upset about the changes GM was trying to make. He could never understand it. He would say,"How could all these people be loyal to this company and GM just toss us out like the weekly garbage?" You could speak negative about GM only if you worked there but if you were not a union member he felt you had know right to speak against GM. To this day I still wonder why? Why was he allowed to speak his mind about plant #36 but all others not associated with this plant had no right? I suppose it is like when a parent with their own child and they speak negative to others about their own child. But.......heaven forbid someone else pipes in and states one negative comment about the child and that parent becomes enraged with anger. Even if it is the truth!!! My only guess is that GM was like his own child and love or hate the things your kids put you through you defend them to the end. And....defend GM he always did!!!
Dad loved GM so I loved GM. That was until Friday, August 16th, 2002. That was the day my HATE for GM began and still until this day burns inside me. I will never forget that awful day. I was just a few weeks from entering the 11th grade and less than a month earlier celebrated my "sweet 16th" birthday. My mom and dad walked into my bedroom and told me the news that changed my life forever. My dad had the cancer. No cancer is ever good but my dad had the worse cancer. The Stage IV cancer. The carcinoma and metastasis cancer. The cancer when you tell someone that your dad has and immediately they look away and the tears well up in their eyes. Then.... so strangely look back at you and attempt that "half-ass smile" That is the last time they speak or look into your eyes again. They knew it and I knew it. My dad had the GM cancer. The years of drinking, smoking cigarettes, and the unknown chemicals inhaled into his lungs from Plant #36 was now trapped inside his precious body. Not even the great and almighty General Motors Blue Cross/Blue Shield insurance was going to help him now. GM had finally won.
I never once heard my dad blame GM. I never told him that I blamed GM either. I kept this secret deep inside my soul. He never once cried about having cancer or the fact he was going to die from this shit disease. I took him to chemo and radiation and never once saw or heard him ask "Why me, God, why me?" The countless and painful operations he suffered through and never once shed a single tear. Union men are strong, not weak. The only time I saw him cry was when we drove back into Flint to take the paperwork to Local #599 so he could retire from General Motors. He always wanted to retire on his terms. This is only time I had seen my father lose. The GM cancer had won. For five days after his retirement my dad did not return home. He didn't call but in my heart I new he was safe. Where he went he never told me. I didn't ask either. I never heard my father mention Buick plant #36 every again.
My dad was diagnosed on Friday, August 16th, 2002 and passed away on Thursday, February 13th, 2003 at 2:13 a.m. at the University of Michigan Hospital in Ann Arbor. They gave him six months to live. It was the only damn thing those bastard doctor's EVER came close to being right about the cancer. They did however come up one day short. But, that was my dad's doing....he was never one to let the other team win.
Dad passed away on the exact month and day of which he started working at GM. At his funeral the pastor spoke of the significance of the number 13 in my dad's life. Dad started working at GM on February 13th, passed away on February 13th at 2:13 a.m. and he always wore the #13 in all sports he played in as an adult. I always wondered if my dad was the one who said that #13 was unlucky? I think he started that myth just for others stayed clear of his number.
I can't think of a more perfect ending to a dedicated "rivethead" than the banner that was placed above his casket at his funeral. It read "A proud and loyal Local #599 member-never forgotten-always remembered." But, to this day, I still wonder Vietnam or Buick? I guess I will never know........
With all my love to my dad and the "rivetheads" at Buick Plant #36,
Courtney
ISS 335A National Diversity and Change: United States
Courtney |
_________________
Just a Jarhead.. OOORAH ! I dig country music.. I love this country and her flag ! But my family comes first ! |
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 2:21 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
That sure was a lot of Detail for almost PURE FICTION. I do not deny that there were some people that did this. But, not to the EXTENT that you have shown here. It was interesting that she did make mention that the Guy's Foreman was right there with him. A point I've made over and over again about those that have done this type of thing. They wouldn't have gotten away with any of it had Management not condoned that behavior.
I can right from experience of my father working at Plant 36. And I know he didn't leave early or go to the bar. chase women or have someone punch him in or out. I could tell you stories about Piotroski, and Gagnon, Red and the Preacher. Real people that actually worked there and did their jobs.
It sure is wonderful to glorify the few that took advantage of a system that Management condoned. Rather then look at those that did do their jobs and put in an honest days work. My father had told me stories of the guys that do the things mentioned in your article. None of which would have happened had GM not wanted it to. You blame the workers, for GM's downfall. THe blame clearly lies with a management, that didn't care. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:54 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
...on many levels.
Though I feel sad for her loss; I also feel bad about her on many other levels:
that she would see her father engage in such behaviors as;
driving with alcohol; & being an open and unapologetic alcoholic
being dishonest at work [taking pay for hours not worked] and worst yet making your child a part of it by making it a "game"
acceptance of drugs/alcohol/extra-martial sex/gambling in the workplace;
and finally being a "bully" by behavior that others had no standing for an opinion if they were not the "same" as him.
He truly sounds like a self-centered, self-destructive, narcissistic person
Worse yet, she sees nothing wrong in these behaviors and apparently even admires HIM for them, much less despite them.....I guess it shows that people who are loved can overlook the most reprehensible behavior, as long as they are treated positively...even Hitler had people who "loved" him.
That has twisted her values IMO. She actually believes GM "won" and killed him. Like its some "big game"; we screw GM or GM screws us. That is truly sad.
I wonder if she feels it is ok to cheat at school, and would only regret it if she were caught. I wonder if she too, casually pops open a beer while driving. I wonder if she expects to enage in drinking/drugs/gambling, extra-maritial affairs, because that was "normal" behavior as her pop taught her to accept...and not judge. Sounds to me like her father selfishly carefully crafted those behaviors NOT to be judged and frankly they are the wrong ones.
That to me is the real cost of this man's behavior. Though I fear that is NOT what the intent of this post was to express. That's where he failed his daughter, and she'll never even know it, unless she has her own epiphany someday.
On another level, it's a textbook example of why GM/Delphi is in the state it is in today, and why many people outside the industry have so little sympathy for those inside the industry...when this behavior is actually celebrated and bragged about...then to see those same people whining and snarling about their current situations. Truly there is a lesson here about how powerfully devastating the lack of a sense of responsibility, trustworthiness and obligation can be.
Powerful yet profoundly sad stuff here, though not as might have been envisioned.
biggie |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:35 pm |
|
|
flintteach
F L I N T O I D
|
Courts (or Sissy, as my kids call her) didn't praise her father for what he did. She and I talked after she emailed me this essay for a class at MSU. She felt sorrow for Marty and realized why she wants out of this town and state. She knew that GM provided she and her mom a good life but with that good life came all the things she expressed in her essay. NONE of this is fiction ! I remember Courtney sitting in the parking lot of Buick City and how pissed my wife and I became when we found this out. And Marty wasn't your deadbeat, drop-dead drunk. One of the nicest men I ever met. He could tear apart a car engine in no time flat and have it running again in the same time frame. He was a 3rd shift janitor for years at Plant #36. He did drink a lot but it never interferred with his daily duties as a husband, father, or human being.
Not only Marty told me of these plant #36 stories but MANY MANY friends and family who were rivetheads. Parties, the "candyman", the "numbers" man, how they went to lunch in the parking with a beer and a doobie !
What my niece wanted to convey and myself is.. these people are the reason(s) that GM is no longer in Flint. Could you imagine a school teacher, professor, nurse, or your family doctor going out to the parking lot and getting high or drinking alcohol on their lunchbreak? They would lose their jobs in a NY minute.
I don't feel for these people. They determined their own fate with their less than ideal obessions.
And as far as my niece, she is 19 years old and a junior studying law at MSU on the dean's list. My sister and her husband did a fine job raising her while many in Flint her age are high school dropouts, teenage mothers, or inmates ! In no way does she condone what Marty did but at the time she was a young child and it took reading the book "Rivethead" to realize why she doesn't LOVE FLINT ! |
_________________
Just a Jarhead.. OOORAH ! I dig country music.. I love this country and her flag ! But my family comes first ! |
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:20 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
Hmmm, janitor on Third Shift. Now you've really got my Curiosity going. I never supervised third over there. I did however, get the First shift for a few weeks over at Buick City. We did write up and walk out a few guys over over there. But it stopped after the 2nd one was walked out. Unfortunately, Labor relations gave them their job back in exchange for dropping a few grievances.
I believe Knight Facilities had 36 then ARA took it over. They did go through quite a few Formans on third over there. I'd have to go back and ask my dad. As he was on 1st Shift. He went back to working on a machine before he retired. Which BTW, he put out more production in his first three days then the guy who was doing the job before him had in a week. Had to fight with Both Management and Workers around him just to do his job. Management didn't like it that he did his job, and the rest of them were pissed that they had more work to do because he actually did. Yet it's ALL of the hourly workers fault. Employees follow, Management Leads! When management doesn't give a shit, only a few employees will. I could talk for hours on the Waste I alone have seen at GM plants. Not small potatoes either.
Only at GM will they spend 1.5 million on a cafeteria floor. Then ruin it by waxing a porous stone floor only to spend just under a half million to was and then strip it. Only to find that they now have to replace the ruined floor. You cannot get wax out of porous stone. That was just at Indy truck and bus. Then management has the nerve to tell the worker “His health care is driving up the cost of business.” I could go on and on with the things I’ve seen. How do you think the Jobs bank came about? GM is the only company I know of that will literally go out of it’s way to waste money to prove it’s loosing it. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:22 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
'teach - first thanks for the additional comments on context. I wouldn't have taken the points you make from her essay. Thats the just the way I interpreted what she was saying. See additional comments below***
quote:
flintteach schreef:
Courts (or Sissy, as my kids call her) didn't praise her father for what he did.
***Well I sure didn't take that from her essay. I saw from her words, someone who loved her dad so much, that she wouldn't reproach or admit that his behaviors were wrong. She could have declared that up front. Instead she went out of her way to defend him from his "detractors". She could have said, "I now realize that my father's behaviors are wrong, but at the time...etc etc" That to me would have been clearer [but then these are teenage kids, so I understand now what she meant, thanks 'teach]***
quote:
flintteach schreef:
She and I talked after she emailed me this essay for a class at MSU. She felt sorrow for Marty and realized why she wants out of this town and state. She knew that GM provided she and her mom a good life but with that good life came all the things she expressed in her essay.
***No, with that came all the things that her father DID. He provided her & mom the life they enjoyed, but he also was responsible for his behavior, not GM***
quote:
flintteach schreef:
NONE of this is fiction ! I remember Courtney sitting in the parking lot of Buick City and how pissed my wife and I became when we found this out. And Marty wasn't your deadbeat, drop-dead drunk. One of the nicest men I ever met. He could tear apart a car engine in no time flat and have it running again in the same time frame. He was a 3rd shift janitor for years at Plant #36. He did drink a lot but it never interferred with his daily duties as a husband, father, or human being..
*** Alcoholism is a pernicious and widespread disease. I know from personal experience. And yes, many alcoholics do lead "normal" lives on the surface, and many are "nice, jolly" drunks, not mean ones. But they are engaged in very dangerous behaviors. I recall she mentioned SEVEN drunk driving arrests/convictions, and you say it NEVER interferred with his life???? Well it should have then!! Shame on the judicial system if it allowed such a person to continue to drive with that track record. Oh and I KNOW also from personal experience that those "shop" stories are NOT myths. I too was a UAW member, not here in Flint though. I too started right out of high school, just a few years after Marty began his odyssey. ***
quote:
flintteach schreef:
Not only Marty told me of these plant #36 stories but MANY MANY friends and family who were rivetheads. Parties, the "candyman", the "numbers" man, how they went to lunch in the parking with a beer and a doobie !..
*** Yep been there, seen that. Never felt the need to indulge or condone it though. Fact is, its downright dangerous behavior, not only for the person induging but the workers around them too. Accidents, serious injuries, for what? So someone could enjoy their vodka and squirt while operating heavy equipment??? And yes, I had my life threatened more than once by gangsters, et al when I wouldn't cooperate. real big "blue collar" heros those thugs and criminals running gambling rings in the shop.****
quote:
flintteach schreef:
What my niece wanted to convey and myself is.. these people are the reason(s) that GM is no longer in Flint. Could you imagine a school teacher, professor, nurse, or your family doctor going out to the parking lot and getting high or drinking alcohol on their lunchbreak? They would lose their jobs in a NY minute.!..
*** I'm with you and niece here...but does she recognize that she can love her Dad and yet see the cause and effect of his misguided, self-destructive behavior? AND that behavior multipled tens of thousands of times, not only by his peers, but by management behaving the same way or looking the other way because it was easier than addressing it, to see the cost that is being paid today? If she does, I sure didn't take that away from her essay. Sorry. but it wasn't clear. All I saw was a kid dealing with the anger and grief of losing a parent.***
quote:
flintteach schreef:
I don't feel for these people. They determined their own fate with their less than ideal obessions.
And as far as my niece, she is 19 years old and a junior studying law at MSU on the dean's list. My sister and her husband did a fine job raising her while many in Flint her age are high school dropouts, teenage mothers, or inmates ! In no way does she condone what Marty did but at the time she was a young child and it took reading the book "Rivethead" to realize why she doesn't LOVE FLINT !
*** Though like you i feel these folks are receiving the consequences of their behaviors. Unfortunately, the innocent are collateral damage, in that we ALL are left to wrestle with the legacy of out of control work rules, lack of courage at all levels, including management, that has resulted in a bloated, over-paid, work-force. But the pensioners, and surrounding communities, and society will suffer as a consequence also.***
***I didn't realize a 19 year old could study the law? usually they must get a BA then apply to law school, as an advance degree. That's the way, at least my oldest is doing it...sweating out law school apps after graduating from UM. I'm glad to hear that in your opinion she does realize right from wrong. I haven't read Rivethead, but I have heard about Ben Hamper. Not sure exactly, why she doesn't like Flint from the book, but thats just one of life's mysteries I'm probably not destined to fathom.
Thanks again for clearing that up, and I mean no disrepect to you or your niece. And I wish her the best in her endeavors. That was a fascinating piece to present here.
biggie*** |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:03 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
I don't deny that stuff like that happened. But again! MANAGEMENT CONDONED that behavior! They participated in it.
One plant I worked in there was a Janitor that ran a business out of the Janitors storage room. I was told when i got there that I was not to touch him. This was because, he had the "goods" on high level managers in the plant. Becuase of things that had happened in the past. Ie illegal appropreations of GM equipment by managers. This guy had so much power and authority he gave out job assignments and excused days off. Yes an hourly was doing that. When i got there. I determined to get things back to they way they should be. By the time I left that plant to go to my next one. I had effectively, taken him out of control. Not only for the things he was doing, but got the managers out from under his thumb. HOW? By doing my job. You cannot expect the people that work for you to do thier jobs. When you don't do yours. Or are participating in the same activities.
So, Mr. Biggie. you worked there! Yet you seem to believe you got what you deserved then also?
Oh and teach. I should have clerified. Fiction - A few peoples experience doesn't make an arguement that Everyone is doing that. There were thousands working at buick at one time. In the plants. If your not on the line when it starts. Your getting written up. Plain and simple. So many write ups and your out of there! Management and other workers did make it difficult for many years, for the people that worked there, that did do there jobs. |
|
|
|
Mon Apr 03, 2006 7:58 am |
|
|
flintteach
F L I N T O I D
|
Biggie
She is a poli-sci major and wants to attend DePaul or NYU to continue her studies.
And you know what they say.. "Out of the mouths of babes."
I thought her perspective would be enlightening ! Because I was one of those family members who tried to tell her what GM was all about. She was just a child then and didn't understand the whole spectrum. I think now she does ! |
_________________
Just a Jarhead.. OOORAH ! I dig country music.. I love this country and her flag ! But my family comes first ! |
|
|
Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:26 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
You asked:
"So, Mr. Biggie. you worked there! Yet you seem to believe you got what you deserved then also?"
And still do, though no longer as an hourly worker. So I haven't YET gotten what I will "deserve"! 
My point is, there is a clear line of events, behaviors etc that brings "us' to the point we are today. No cataclysmic, unanticipated occurrence. All the negotiated contracts, strikes, work rules, management failures etc...its all adds up to our current position. I learned long ago that a negotiated contract is ONE thing. How it is enforced is a different thing and goes a long way towards actually defining what is actually done on the shop floor.
If the UAW/Auto industry thinks they can continue to compete with workers clocking in anfd then leaving...drugs/drinking etc on the shop floor etc...well they will deserve what they get then, won't they?
As you pointed out, and I concur, a lot of that behavior has been stripped from the plant, especially the crack down on substance abuse and gambling. But, the work abuse continues. A freind saw one of his relatives at a Piston's broadcast, when the gentleman was "clocked in" and working..supposedly.
biggie |
|
|
|
Mon Apr 03, 2006 2:37 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
Thank You!
I would agree whole heartily with that. Now,
quote:
A friend saw one of his relatives at a Piston's broadcast, when the gentleman was "clocked in" and working. supposedly.
WHERE IS HIS SUPERVISOR??? I'd been waiting by the door when he came in to walk his ass down to labor relations. I'd have his committeeman standing by! He'd be out of there! I didn't play with these guys. In my two years there. I walked out three, and wrote up more than I can remember. Many of the things I was able to accomplish didn't require write ups or walk outs. It only required being fair and just. No favorites!! And follow the contract. After SIX years in the Marine Corps. GM was a cake walk. NCO’s run the corps. |
|
|
|
Mon Apr 03, 2006 9:29 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:
Thank You!
I would agree whole heartily with that. Now,
quote:
A friend saw one of his relatives at a Piston's broadcast, when the gentleman was "clocked in" and working. supposedly.
WHERE IS HIS SUPERVISOR??? I'd been waiting by the door when he came in to walk his ass down to labor relations. I'd have his committeeman standing by! He'd be out of there! I didn't play with these guys. In my two years there. I walked out three, and wrote up more than I can remember. Many of the things I was able to accomplish didn't require write ups or walk outs. It only required being fair and just. No favorites!! And follow the contract. After SIX years in the Marine Corps. GM was a cake walk. NCO’s run the corps.
Well Ted, I don't know how long ago you worked supervisory in the shop [and I've been out of the plants for a long time now too], but the discipline procedure changed sometime ago, to where the old balance of shift/1-2-3 day suspensions/1-2-3 weeks of suspensions went from real imposed sentences to recordable on paper but NOT imposed!! At some point then the miscreant got escorted out. Now this was not for serious offenses like drugs etc.....but for your regular, late/disappearing acts breaking shop rules, not working to rule etc....
I know a lot of first line supervisors who felt betrayed to see miscreants walking in the shop soon after discipline because they were "bargained" away in settling dozens/scores of grievances vs disciplines cases. Some of these people had even threatened the supervisors with violance and were back i nthe ddor. So the first line supers were caught in the middle and after a few of those, you figure out you have to protect yourself FROM BOTH SIDES...upper management/labor relations and the UAW machine.
My experiences were from several decades ago though, so things may indeed be different, though the fellow at the Pistons game was probably 5 years ago or less.
OBTW, where was his super??, welllllll, this person is skilled trades, so he was either at the repair site..not there? oh he must have gone back to the shop for some special tools.....not there? oh, he must be at one of the many cribs scattered around the plant..not there? oh perhaps he is looking up some tool ordering info back in the maintenance office or wherever the catalogs are kept...not there? well maybe he's getting some special equipment, or another trade to help with something...get it? fact is the super in charge of monitoring the progress of dozens of repairs across plants by multiple people is pretty much at the mercy of the quality and integrity of the skilled tradesman. I once knew a super, the guys working under him said it was no fun "screwing him" because he was never smart enough to know his people were "screwing" him [in hours/effort to fix a problem]. If a guy said 3 days on a 3 hour job, ol' John said "great, get to it..."
biggie |
|
|
|
Tue Apr 04, 2006 5:42 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
I understand too well, how GM and the UAW will bargain those miscreants back their job. The thing to remember is. This game was being played years before I was born, and it will be continued to be played as long as Management wants it to.
They could put a stop to the whole thing by just following the contract that both sides bargained in "good faith" They would have to stop playing favorites. And actually do their job. Just so you understand the pressure. I was a contract supervisor. One of the Aramark and later Knight guys. One thing that always amazed me. GM Formans made three times what I did. And were held accountable for NOTHING! They whined about GM letting those bums back in. They had no understanding of how they fit in GM’s BIG PICTURE!. That’s like a CPL being upset because of something a General did. It is not up to the Supervisor to make those determinations as to whether to rehire the guy back. In truth. What should he really care. He should care that he did his job to the best of his ability. And because he did his job correctly. It allowed GM to bargain away grievances that could have cost GM more than just some Bum a few days of pay or a few days off. This also worked heavily to Managements benefit. Think about it. You’ve got a majority of people that do come in a work, and do their jobs, earn their pay. But, Management turns it around and Blames the Union. How? Because, “the union gave them their job back!” The worst part is. That the Union doesn’t have the Ability to give anyone their job. They do not hire or fire anyone. But, the majority of workers and people outside GM don’t understand, and are jealous of what UAW workers make. And Management uses it as a tool to run down support for the Union. Trust ME! Committeeman do not want these bums back to work! Your average committeeman would be content to sit on his ass drinking coffee in his office, rather than trying to defend a bums indefensible actions. If you’ve ever been in a (DI) Disciplinary Interview. You’d know, that when the Employee doesn’t have a leg to stand on. The Committeeman will attempt to argue anything and everything but what you are in the interview for. Because they have no contractual grounds to argue this guys case. You got to know what I’m talking about here. LOL I grin every time I think about most of My DI’s I conducted.
The one thing I learned real quick at GM. GM doesn't care if you got the job done or not. If you as a supervisor did your job and walked out the only three people in the plant that could get the line up and running and it was a RIGHTEOUS BUST. The plant could have lost millions but, you'd still be a hero as the supervisor. Think I'm wrong. I didn't do that one. That was an even gutsier ARA supervisor than I was. GM Management loved him for it.
GM is more concerned with people doing what they are told, rather then building the best quality product or even getting the job done. That is one of Managements biggest problems. Right or wrong. As long as you do what your told. You’re the greatest.. |
|
|
|
Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:31 pm |
|
|
OnceARaider
F L I N T O I D
|
Guys who lived the '37 Sitdown Strike
You can hear them in their own voices at URL below. Used with permission.
Speaker: Louis Ganscos. Interviewed by: U-M Flint Labor History Project.
http://www.historicalvoices.org/flint/introduction.php
. Date of interview: 05-03-1980. Edited by: Michael Van Dyke. Copyright: ©2002 Michigan State University. Partial TRANSCRIPT
But, as I look back on it now, it doesn't seem like wages was a primary cause for the strike, working conditions, things that today a person working wouldn't be aware of, couldn't even understand. ...
I don't know how many people today are aware that an organization as big as GM, that some of the people in uh... higher positions actually took people from GM plants to their cabins to paint, to build sidewalks and they were paid by General Motors payroll. This is the kind of supervision you had, so when you had those kind of people, you can imagine your working conditions are not going to be as good as the where you had... the protection we have now.
Speaker: Ray Holland. Date of interview: 13-07-1978.Copyright: ©2002 Michigan State University. TRANSCRIPT
I have absolutely, and tell the truth, seen them hire a hundred men and fire a hundred all the same day. That's what the thing's all about. If you never knew whether you had a job or not. And, at thirty-six cents an hour, of course, Chevrolet was cheap and at that time, the same time they was putting out sixty, sixty-five cars an hour, they were making money, or they, but they wouldn't pay more than...
Speaker: Ed Erlich. Date of interview: 03-07-1978. Copyright: ©2002 Michigan State University. TRANSCRIPT
Interviewer: Okay, why did you, just you yourself, why did you decide to take part in the strike?
Cause it was rough workin' in there. It was terrible. I tell ya, they... we'd go to work there when they started the model and we'd go in, and we was workin piece-work. And then the line, they'd have you come in and set in the cafateria. I'd set in there and if there was a job come down that line, and you...they'd say "Well, go on out and get that job." You'd work on that one job when that job, when you got your work done, you'd go in and sit in the cafeteria again.And if you... that's all you'd do that's all you got paid for for that day, and that'd give you good reasons to strike wouldn't it?
Speaker: Leo Robinson. Date of interview: 13-07-1978. Copyright: ©2002 Michigan State University. TRANSCRIPT
Another thing that didn't have, that we had: if we went into work in the morning and started, we rung in our cards and went out on the floor and something broke down and tied up the floor, we didn't come home. (Really?) The boss sent us to this, to the uh, sent us to the dinning room and set down until he needed you. But before you went up to set down you went back and rung out your clock card and you didn't get no pay if he kept you there three hours or whatever it was, you didn't get a nickel.
(Wow) But they kept you on the job because they said so, see, we had no say, and if you don't like it, well get out. That's the orders we had. We had to set there until, until they called us back down. If it was a half a day, it was all the same. Now, now we go in, these guys, at six o'clock in the morning, if they go in at six and if something broke down and they can't go to work they turn right around and come back home and they gotta pay 'em full hours for comin' in. That's what we won, that's one thing [inaudible]. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:50 am |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
FlintTalk.com Forum Index
> Political Talk
