| Author
|
Post |
 
|
|
Adam
Guest
|
This is pretty horrible news for Flint and Genessee county.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/chi-0604010110apr01,1,3807660.story?track=rss
It would be nice if the mayor and council would contact "Chinese or Indian suppliers who could buy a few Delphi plants in the U.S. to gain a foothold here and establish relationships with U.S. manufacturers.
One such company is Wanxiang America Corp., a Chinese-owned transplant based in Elgin that has expressed interest in Delphi. Wanxiang aims to become one of the world's biggest auto-parts companies.
Another potential suitor for Delphi plants is billionaire investor Wilbur Ross, who is assembling a global supplier operation by buying distressed companies. He did a similar thing with bankrupt steel companies."
if this worst case scenario does actually happen. Hopefully it will not and we can keep high paying Delphi jobs. I dunno perhaps the city of Flint could by the plant keep the jobs and run it. I'm sure that would be a lot cheaper than the 80 million Auto World deal we tried to pull off.
We could also try and start home based businesses and try and open up closed businesses that aren't even for sale etc. or we can just do nothing like we are currently doing and even leave stupid anti-business ordinances on the books. It'd be nice if people would look back and see who created GM jobs in the first place. Who that person's grandfather was. Perhaps study Charles Stewart Mott a little better. Maybe then people would actually listen to me and not just sit around and do nothing. Durant and Mott might be dead but I'm not.
Adam Ford |
|
|
Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:10 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
Adam I love it!!
quote:
Their overseas operations are more profitable, and their strategy is to make that more of the backbone of the company," Ebert said. "It would be relatively easy to move some things to Mexico from a logistical standpoint."
In a speech last fall, Chairman and CEO Robert S. "Steve" Miller illustrated why Delphi's U.S. wages are out of line in a global economy. He said workers at the auto-parts supplier's Mexican plants earn about $7,000 a year.
Being paid at a rate of $27 an hour, a United Auto Workers member at a U.S. plant makes that much in seven weeks. Even the $26,000 a year Delphi seeks to pay some U.S. workers is still nearly four times as much as a Mexican worker earns.
7000.00 That’s SEVEN THOUSAND! A seven and four zeros. That is less than what these autoworkers pay in taxes. OK
Follow me here. When these jobs go away. The tax base goes with it. Government finds new ways to collect those lost dollars. They do it off the poor. They raise fees, they raise taxes, NOT ON THE WEALTHY mind you. On the POOR. The wealthy don't care if they have to pay more to drive they can afford it. They don't mind seat belt taxes. They raise the tax on cigarettes, since the poor smoke in higher numbers than the rich, who pays the tax.
Also, How do you bring American companies into a global economy or global market to be competitive. When the global market pays their people wages that are below the America POVERTY LEVEL!! This is my main problem with Republicans. While I agree with most everything else. They have no problem finding ways to protect foreign companies exporting products to the US. Yet, do nothing but create new laws, and regulations for American companies already here. You know the ones I'm talking about. The Minimum wage law. God forbid we dictate to employers that they pay people enough to barely scrap by. Or that we have laws that protect workers from being forced to work with cancer causing agents, or that we force companies to dispose of their toxic waste in a manner that doesn’t' affect the environment of the people that have to live by it. tsk tsk. I’m not an environmentalist WACKO, I just don’t think it’s a good idea to dump toxic waste into the water table where people live. Or like they do in Mexico and let it run down the streets by the plants.
Delphi also said Friday that it would eliminate 8,500 salaried workers globally--5,250, in the U.S.--and trim its executive ranks by 40 percent.
[/quote]
I’ll bet that is all with minimal cuts for the TOP execs. Who By The Way, make so much more than their foreign Japanese counter parts. The Japanese Execs could be considered “In Poverty” comparably! http://www.beggarscanbechoosers.com/2005/04/ceo-pay-soared-in-2004-as-us-economy.html
quote:
Detroit's CEOs have long pocketed by far the highest compensation levels of any auto executives in the world.
This shouldn't really be surprising: American CEOs in general have long raked in vastly higher pay packages than their overseas counterparts. U.S. CEOs make, on average, 22 times what their counterparts make in Japan and 17 times what their counterparts earn in Europe.
If pay is somehow tied to performance, then you'd think that America's automakers are the world's most competitive, correct?
Granted MARC MCDONALD is Left of Center. But, he is right on the money here! |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:20 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
liars figure and figures lie, and damn statistics are the worst.
If you want to compare US auto execs with counterparts in other cultures/societieis, thats fine, but thats a potentially misleading and useless comparison. Why?
because they [US auto execs] don't operate those societies and neither do you and I.
So if the Japanese or Chinese auto exec makes X many times less, well how many times less do the average worker, shopkeeper, fastfood worker in those same societies than their US counterpart. It may very well be that YOUR "job/career" in that same society makes the same X number of times less also.
Second, the "market" establishes what those jobs are worth within their respective economies. There are no guns put to heads of boards of directors, nor are there "unions" representing "top management" to collectively bargain with stockholders. In fact I suspect, and recall at one time, that the US auto industry paid their top execs less than other comparable industries, certainly a lot less than tech companies and thats not "handicapping" for size/volume/complexity of the firm etc. i do know for a fact that all the top companies subscribe to outside firms that keep track of executive/salaried compensation packages relative to companies of similar size, similar industry etc. So if you told me that auto execs lead all US industries and other sectors for exec compensation, I'd listen to your argument...but they don't.
At one time I was privy to see these results...and as you might expect, GM at one time was probably in the top 5 on many measures...the last time I saw them, quite a few years ago, I was shocked to see how far GM had fallen compared to other companies and what they were paying/providing etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see if they haven't tumbled out of the top 30 [there was a top 30 companies representing the best/biggest in many sectors] on many measures.
So those stories are usually not worth much, if not totally deceptive. The fact is the auto exec's comensation is and should be heavily weighted towards business results, which tend to be weighed and rewarded by stock price, thus stock options, which every salaried persion is also entitled too [although they have all been worthless, due to our business/stock performance].
Its always eaasy to look at the "other guys" and say: they got too much, they got it esier, we got screwed, they don't deserve...etc etc..
its been going on since the beginning of time, its called the human condition....you going to form your opinion fine, you going to convince me of your position's validity, I prefer facts over opinion and logic over motion, thank you very much.
biggie |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:31 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
So if the Japanese or Chinese auto exec makes X many times less, well how many times less do the average worker, shopkeeper, fast food worker in those same societies than their US counterpart. It may very well be that YOUR "job/career" in that same society makes the same X number of times less also.
Actually the Japanese Autoworker makes more now than the US autoworker. (so do the Europeans) IN THE SAME MARKET!
Also
quote:
in the 1960s, the average CEO earned around 40 times what the rank-and-file workers earned. Today the average CEO makes over 500 times what the average worker earns. And the gap continues to widen, year by year... Although U.S. automaker workers earn less than their foreign counterparts, Detroit CEOs make vastly higher pay packages than their counterparts do in Germany or Japan.
quote:
Second, the "market" establishes what those jobs are worth within their respective economies. There are no guns put to heads of boards of directors, nor are there "unions" representing "top management" to collectively bargain with stockholders.
Last time I checked, the Board or a committee hired by the CEO or Board determined what they got paid. The actual stockholders have very little say in the matter. with multi million shares out in any company. How many stock holders actually say anything. I've owned stock for years. Never been to any meeting yet.
I gave you facts! one simple fact in the 1960's CEO's pay was only 40 times higher than that of the workers. Today it's in excess of 200 times. If any of those companies are that profitable. Their workers should all be living in mansions. I've never known a CEO to ever produce anything. Never heard of a CEO making a car and then selling it. It's hard to be a CEO of something unless someone else is actually making something. So then these companies are 200 times more profitable today? They have 200 times more production being made or 200 times more employees? NO! They’ve downsized and over engineered themselves right out of the market.
Microsoft has shared the wealth with it's employees and it's grown and made quite a few of them rich. Walmart did much of the Sam. up until Sam Died. Then things changed. Had Sam's policy continued under his kids, they would not be under such fire today for "BEING SUCCESSFUL" instead, they pay little with no benefits, and have the cheapest products possible. Union or not union is not the issue. How many people working at the local walmart can afford to raise their family on what they make there? I’ll bet it’s less than 10%. Most of them work there to supplement their already underpaid job they have somewhere else. While Democrats and Republicans in government figure out new ways to spend their money for them. Building 220 million dollar bridges in Alaska or razing fees on automobile registration. Or dreaming up idiotic regulations for the average Joe to violate so they can be fined. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:50 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
liars figure and figures lie, and damn statistics are the worst.
I did like this comment though. LOL It does seem to hold true. Statistics can be construed or misconstrued to mean almost anything.
Just look at the Michigan Insurance Regulations. Credit worthiness has more of a bearing on your rates than driving ability of past history of claims or even your driving record. LOL
Because some statistic somewhere says (taken out of context) shows that people with bad credit cost insurance companies more profit. I mean honestly. Have you ever on any claim came close to actually getting back anything close to what you’ve paid in?
Because I live on the Eastside, and went bankrupt two years ago (out of work eight months) If now that I am back on my feet, I wanted to buy a new car. I would pay off the car in Insurance payments almost a year before I paid off the car. And if I was in an accident. I’d never get my car replaced for what it was worth. So even if they collected 25,000 from me for my car. I may only get 13,000 towards replacing it. The insurance company made 12,000 off me buying a car. For what? So that I could finance it. That’s it. Seems a bit steep of a profit margin to me. Keep in Mind that Full Coverage is for replacement of the car. Liability, which is cheaper, is the coverage for medical bills when in an accident. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 02, 2006 11:00 pm |
|
|
Guest
|
| I am a 50 year old college student from Nowheresville Iowa. Last night we watched the Moore move "Roger and Me." I am surfing the internet to find a little about what has happened to Flint in the last 16 years. You say foriegn workes might get $7,000 anually. Cripes. That would not even pay my health insurance plus my high deductable insurance. It might just cover the ductable if I was being treated by a "Network physician." On 60 Min the other night it was mentioned that $1400 (I think) of a new auto goes towards the (US) assemblers health ins. Health care is provided by the governments of the countries where all our good jobs are going. Bill Clinton was hell-bent for a national health care system of some sort when he entered office. He quickly found himself in deep do-do. (Really DEEP.) Funny thing happened. When he got himself dug out of that mess, national healthcare was never mentioned again. Question, Who was it that did not want their gravy-train stepped on? Now we have a clown in office that claims "offshoring is good for the ecomomy." Question #2, why did we re-elect him? Or rather, how did he get re-elected? Statement, IF we elect someone worth a *&% next time, we will be 30 years getting ourselves dug out of this hole we are in. Question #3, what are we going to do in the next election? Lets get someone in these offices that have the spunk to stop letting these companies export our jobs to countries that will not let our products in their countries. Brazil is one, we want your jobs but not your products. Our companies just say "OUTSTANDING." Our polititions are elated with the agreement. Will Rogers said it best, "We have the finest politians that money can buy." He did not live to see a 10th of it. I'm rambling. Goodnight folks. |
|
|
|
Thu Apr 06, 2006 8:49 pm |
|
|
rapunzel
Guest
|
Welcome to Flint Nowheresville!
It is late but you make very valid points and I hope you will return to ramble in Flint talk again. Health care cost is the issue.
Rap |
|
|
|
Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:53 am |
|
|
Adam
Guest
|
To followup on this the number one selling car in America is still built in America. (Toyota Camry)
I think I've mentioned about contacting Toyota about Buick City but I doubt that would ever happen. Buci City was actually based on a Toyota concept but Toyota City in Japan is still going strong.
With regards to healthcare I think people should realize how weak the UAW is compared to the most powerful Union in the World, The American Medical Association. Even at its peak I don't think the UAW had anywhere near the power of the AMA. The AMA can keep wages high by lmiting the amount of doctors we have in this country. From what I've heard they limit the amount of entries into medical schools. This is why we have a shortage of doctors and why we have so many foreing doctors come here. The other powerful force is the drug industry that buys off politicians and regulators so they can sell toxic drugs with 10,000% markups that people have virtually no choice but to take. |
|
|
|
Fri Apr 07, 2006 6:40 pm |
|
|
Guest
|
Question: At the time GM was closing all the plants in Flint, it was building a brand new facility in Tennesse (I think) to build the new Saturn product line. Why was this plant not located in Flint?
Student from Nowheresville IA. |
|
|
|
Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:30 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
Because, Quality and Production was HIGH! and cost basis was low. GM needed to prove they've been loosing money. And they couldn’t keep blaming the UNION when this plant was out performing everyone else in the World! They couldn't afford to have their JD Power and Assoc. Named Number One Plant in the World, to remain open.
We wonder why Toyota is kicking the American Car makers asses. Let's see. If Toyota used GM's logic. After Buick City (which tied with Toyota tahara plant) as being the Number one plant in the World. Toyota should have closed their Number one plant also. This is the eighth wonder of the world. Why GM Closes their best plants, yet their competitors keep their open. It doesn't rationalize. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 09, 2006 12:02 am |
|
|
Adam
Guest
|
| I've always wondered if GM may have had it in for Flint due to the sit down strike and others. I think you could spend a lifetime studying everything that went wrong at GM. In the days of Mott and Durant though it was an incredible company. They were actually worried about selling too many cars in the U.S. due to possible government regulation from what I've heard. Perhaps if GM would have been able to fully compete in the 50's they could have set themselves up to stop the foreign invasion. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 09, 2006 5:45 pm |
|
|
Guest
|
It is a crazy country we live in. My wife worked at Lands End for many years. Most years works much overtime. Lands End was bought by Sears. I told my wife we better get our finaces in order because she would be out of work in a little over a year. True statement. Sears started marketing Lands End high end apparel in stores next to their cheap low quality import garments. Funny thing happened. Sears could not sell the Lands End product. It was decided to ship manufacturing over seas to try to get the cost down. From what we hear they did not get the cost down (at least not in the stores). Now it unravvels just as well at the imports. Don't you just love some of these college educated marketing and business people. My wife qualified for two years worth of retraining since her job was sent overseas. After may years of hard work, health forced me to take an office job. Now I am under educated for my job classification. After few years in colleges, we started to realize why the business climate in this country is so screwed up. It is unreal what is being taught in colleges (business and accounting classes in particular). The worst part is, I am working with people that are (attempting to) putting these same crazy teachings into practice in the real world. What I am sweating now is that one of these theories is intended to export my present job. I'm rambling again.
Nowheresville. |
|
|
|
Sun Apr 09, 2006 6:44 pm |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
FlintTalk.com Forum Index
> Political Talk
