|
| Author
|
Post |
 
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
Bob Dylan: "You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows"
For all the folks that want to emphasize "the don's" "8th grade education" versus "the great dayne's" [my new nom de guerre for mr Walling] Rhodes scholarship.
You don't need a Rhodes scholarship to be the mayor of Flint.
In fact I could make the case of "book learning"/academia being less valuable and less indicative to projected performance to "real life"experience.
Unlike Paris Hilton, the don did not inherit his fortune. HE EARNED it. He built it. How? I really don't know, but I doubt it was through a lottery ticket.
So. DO NOT underestimate this guys capability. Especially don't use "edu-ma-cation" as the criteria to evaluate eiither candidate's ability to be an executive leader. There are many other criteria that are more important.
All it shows is the great dayne is good at the school of book learnin'. The don's fortune show's he's good at the school of life learnin'. |
_________________
Biggie |
|
Fri Aug 10, 2007 2:21 pm |
|
|
WHAT!?
F L I N T O I D
|
[All it shows is the great dayne is good at the school of book learnin'. The don's fortune show's he's good at the school of life learnin'.[/quote]
Okay, so where has Don's "life learnin" got the City? Deeper in debt, why should he care - its not hurting his personal coffers. The City of Flint has become a big joke because of Don the Con.
I have never met Mr. Walling. However, I do know a several of his staff very well - professionally and socially. They are good people, smart people, community-oriented, honest and caring people. They have committed their time, passion and talent to Mr. Walling's campaign - because they KNOW HE IS WHAT THE CITY NEEDS!!!!
Good luck Mr. Walling - hopefully in November people will be proud to call you our Honorable Mayor Dayne Walling! |
|
|
|
Sat Aug 11, 2007 8:54 am |
|
|
UncleEffort
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
Biggie9 schreef:
In fact I could make the case of "book learning"/academia being less valuable and less indicative to projected performance to "real life"experience.
Christ I feel like I'm sitting on a bar stool in a shopbar listening to a knuckle-dragger saying "I don't need no education". I've been hearing that same load of crap my entire life in this town. It's attitudes like that towards education that got us to the point were at right now.
quote:
All it shows is the great dayne is good at the school of book learnin'. The don's fortune show's he's good at the school of life learnin'.
An observation about the Don, if he is so successful at "life learnin" why is he such a miserable sob? Hell, last week when he won the primary he just sat there in his chair with a huge scowl on his face. Don might have made it financial in this world but I wouldn't want to live in his world. [/quote] |
_________________
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. |
|
|
Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:21 am |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
UncleEffort schreef:
Christ I feel like I'm sitting on a bar stool in a shopbar listening to a knuckle-dragger saying "I don't need no education". I've been hearing that same load of crap my entire life in this town. It's attitudes like that towards education that got us to the point were at right now.
Whats wrong with a shop bar? No different than a preppy bar. Just two groups of people who can't understand the other. You sound like a person who has an imbalance between experience and edu-ma-ca-tion. I'm not surprised you've heard a "crap load" of the POV here since Flint is the poster-child [well, used to be] for "blue-collar community". There is nothing wrong with experience or education. There is in believing one is inherently superior over the other. Experience is in itself, education. Education without experience is well....try getting a good job without experience. People [companies] recognize the value of BOTH in tandem.
Some of the most mean-spirited, intolerant people I've met were "educated". Some of the nicest giving people I've met were factory workers. Education had nothing to do with it.
quote:
An observation about the Don, if he is so successful at "life learnin" why is he such a miserable sob? Hell, last week when he won the primary he just sat there in his chair with a huge scowl on his face. Don might have made it financial in this world but I wouldn't want to live in his world.
you are mistaking material success with fulfillment. Its not so. Don't we read daily about personalities, apparently famous and rich with screwed up lives? substance abuse issues, marital problems, mental problems, etc.
Why we can only see the surface of a person we really don't know what is going on under the surface. Maybe the don is happy and fulfilled when he is scowling and acting gruff and mean. Maybe its an ego defense mechanism to keep people at a distance. Maybe its compensation, hell I don't know.
I do know experience doesn't guarantee happiness. But the don has obviously been successful in the material aspects of life.
Ask yourself, if you had to be either:
a mean sob and poor.
or.
a mean sob and rich...which would you choose?
with regards to your last sentence, I agree. I wouldn't want to be him either, even with the trappings of wealth and power if I had to be like him. |
_________________
Biggie |
|
|
Sat Aug 11, 2007 11:43 am |
|
|
Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
|
What a load of arrogant, condescending, elitism this is turning in to!
Uneducated knuckledraggers? Don never smiles? Dayne's better looking, younger, etc.? Rhodes Scholar? Real substantial reasons to vote?
GOOD GRIEF! |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
|
|
Mon Aug 13, 2007 1:30 pm |
|
|
JBToolFist
F L I N T O I D
|
I'd like to make a prediction: A dozen or so organizations will try to organize debates between Williamson and Walling. Dayne will jump at the opportunity - Don will decline every single one.
Why? Because Don is afraid of the world finding out how truly unintelligent he really is. He's scared to death of smart people. That's why he can only surround himself with 'yes men'
He realizes that every chance the world has to see him in an unscripted setting, that there is a risk of the world discovery how lacking he is in intellectual capacity. It's his achilles heal and he knows it.
If all the voters of Flint could see an open, unscripted, honest debate between Don W. and Dayne W. The Don would lose 75% of his support. |
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07pLGIgyfjw
"If you ain't from Flint, then it's like straight up F*&^ You!" - The Dayton Family
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiV_ue-PbL4 |
|
|
Mon Aug 13, 2007 3:43 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
I'll only differ with you in this sense. the don is uneducated, not sure if he is "unintelligent". Guess it depends on the definitions we are working with.
I think the don, whether he's read "The Prince" or not, would make Machiavelli proud.
yes he comes of as coarse, rude and overbearing [and thats on a good day], but I wouldn't underestimate his survival instincts.
I am sure kicking, gouging, biting, and their political equivalents are all in his repretoire. |
_________________
Biggie |
|
|
Mon Aug 13, 2007 9:17 pm |
|
|
UncleEffort
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
What a load of arrogant, condescending, elitism this is turning in to!
Uneducated knuckledraggers? Don never smiles? Dayne's better looking, younger, etc.? Rhodes Scholar? Real substantial reasons to vote?
GOOD GRIEF!
Being a little critical about some of the values that people have around this town does not make one an elitist. If one looks at the parts of the country where people are doing well; for somebody to hold academical achievement in high regard is actually quite normal. |
_________________
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. |
|
|
Tue Aug 14, 2007 8:23 am |
|
|
JBToolFist
F L I N T O I D
|
|
|
Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:47 am |
|
|
Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
UncleEffort schreef:
quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
What a load of arrogant, condescending, elitism this is turning in to!
Uneducated knuckledraggers? Don never smiles? Dayne's better looking, younger, etc.? Rhodes Scholar? Real substantial reasons to vote?
GOOD GRIEF!
Being a little critical about some of the values that people have around this town does not make one an elitist. If one looks at the parts of the country where people are doing well; for somebody to hold academical achievement in high regard is actually quite normal.
Is sneering at those without high academic achievement also normal? |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
|
|
Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:26 pm |
|
|
UncleEffort
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
Is sneering at those without high academic achievement also normal?
I said no such thing. If you go back and
actually read
my post you will find that I was being critical of those who
mock education
.
Obviously that is not the same as what you are implying. |
_________________
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. |
|
|
Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:46 pm |
|
|
JBToolFist
F L I N T O I D
|
I don't sneer at those without high academic achievement. But I do however sneer at those who have not lived up to their academic potential.
It should be every US citizen's responsibility to achieve the highest level of educational competency that they possibly can. Otherwise they're not contributing to society but being a burden on society.
(and by education I also mean a skill (i.e. plumbers/carpenters/electricians etc) |
_________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07pLGIgyfjw
"If you ain't from Flint, then it's like straight up F*&^ You!" - The Dayton Family
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RiV_ue-PbL4 |
|
|
Tue Aug 14, 2007 2:42 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
UncleEffort schreef:
quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
Is sneering at those without high academic achievement also normal?
I said no such thing. If you go back and
actually read
my post you will find that I was being critical of those who
mock education
.
Obviously that is not the same as what you are implying.
horse hockey pucks.
here is how you started your post:
"Christ I feel like I'm sitting on a bar stool in a shopbar listening to a knuckle-dragger saying "I don't need no education". I've been hearing that same load of crap my entire life in this town. It's attitudes like that towards education that got us to the point were at right now. "
Thats a personal attack [against me] for having the audacity to suggest that when it comes to effective leadership, I can make a case that real life experience can as valuable, if not more than academic booklearning on leadership.
Here is what you characterized as "mocking education":
"In fact I could make the case of "book learning"/academia being less valuable and less indicative to projected performance to "real life"experience."
In the end though it depends on the student. We could with a little investigation, find cases where learned people were effective leaders and vice versa.
No where did I imply "we don't need no education", and you've never met me, so to characterize me as a "knuckledragger" is a gratuitious assertion.
You have no idea how long my arms are or whether I drag them along the ground when I move.
As a degreed engineer [with advanced degrees], who also knows other close freinds and family in professions like law, medicine etc, I feel comfortable that they, like me realize there is value in both the practical experiences versus the academic side of our respective professions. |
_________________
Biggie |
|
|
Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:04 pm |
|
|
UncleEffort
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
Biggie9 schreef:
Thats a personal attack [against me]
Sorry if you took it that way. I didn't mean to imply that you were in fact, "a knuckedragger." But I still don't agree with what you said. Especially when study after study has confirmed that your level of education will
generally
dictate your level of achievement in life.
quote:
Especially don't use "edu-ma-cation" as the criteria to evaluate eiither candidate's ability to be an executive leader. There are many other criteria that are more important.
9 times out of 10 that's simply not the case. People who can led without an education are the exception and Don is not that. An effective leader in today's world must be educated. I think the Don's leadership was effective in getting rid of all the deadwood but he just doesn't have the background to lead Flint on a national level. Which is what we need.
Now I'm positive that the Don might have a bit more street knowledge than Walling. I'm sure that Don could show Dayne a thing or two about say...rolling back the odometers on cars. But Dayne's education & experience (he has done some things) puts him in a much better position to lead Flint. |
_________________
It takes a big man to cry, but it takes a bigger man to laugh at that man. |
|
|
Thu Aug 16, 2007 12:42 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
Sorry if you took it that way. I didn't mean to imply that you were in fact, "a knuckedragger."
Apology accepted, it was a misunderstanding.
quote:
But I still don't agree with what you said. Especially when study after study has confirmed that your level of education will
generally
dictate your level of achievement in life.
ahhh, well we are talking about two different things here. leadership is NOT the same as "achievement in life" which generally these studies measure as income $$$. It is true, college educated people over their careers, earn hundreds of thousands more than high school or less educated people.
But I've known plenty of well-off people, who while intelligent, would not describe themselves as leaders. And I've known people of modest means who were leaders in life, school, charitable organizations, military, etc.
We may just have to agree to disagree.
But to me Education does not inherently provide leadership skills/techniques/ability. You can indeed take leadership related classes, to improve your understanding of the concepts and techniques, but I've met people without college degrees who intuitively had "the right stuff" and could execute upon it.
quote:
Especially don't use "edu-ma-cation" as the criteria to evaluate eiither candidate's ability to be an executive leader. There are many other criteria that are more important
Uncle responded:
9 times out of 10 that's simply not the case. People who can led without an education are the exception and Don is not that. An effective leader in today's world must be educated. I think the Don's leadership was effective in getting rid of all the deadwood but he just doesn't have the background to lead Flint on a national level. Which is what we need.[/quote]
Don't know what data you have that says 9 times out of 10. But here's where I'm coming from. Being an executive officer is like being the owner of a business. I know business owners who don't have college degrees and are very successful. They learned from the "school of hard-knocks".
When Napoleon Bonaparte took over France, he brought that country out of the chaos of a decade of revolutions, counter-revolutions, insolvency etc. Now Napoleon had only graduated from the military school as a lowly 2nd Lt. artillery officer. he knew nothing of finances, social institutions other than the military etc. In bringing the country out of debt, social chaos etc, he established committees, and filled leadership positions with people from the entire spectrum of political parties, left, right, center. The writer Stendahl wrote "Bonaparte found 50 of the least stupid Frenchmen" to run the country. And it worked.
Thats another element of leadership. Get the right resources for the job....most important are the human assets!
I don't think Mr Walling is personally going to operate all facets of the city government if elected. Rather, we expect him to find "50 of the least stupid Flintstones" to run the city. We would probably agree the don hasn't done that. Hiring cronies and friends who appear at least on the surface, inadequate to the job requirements
quote:
Now I'm positive that the Don might have a bit more street knowledge than Walling. I'm sure that Don could show Dayne a thing or two about say...rolling back the odometers on cars. But Dayne's education & experience (he has done some things) puts him in a much better position to lead Flint.
I don't disagree with you, that Walling is a more appealing candidate, a more "complete package" if you will.
But he's an unproven commodity, to me, as a leader of an organization as large and facing the challenges Flint faces. That doesn't mean he won't respond and rise to the challenges. Lord knows thats how we all grow professionally, by taking on and overcoming greater challenges.
People point to the fact he served under the mayor of Washington, D.C. I am not conversant with his duties & performance there. But it doesn't really matter. He clearly wants to take on the challenge of being mayor,and the people have spoken, so on with the show.
But I wasn't arguing for the don specifically as much as I was stating an effective leader DOES NOT have to have formal degrees. Thats not the same as intelligence or leadership capability.
Your Mileage May Vary [YMMV] |
_________________
Biggie |
|
|
Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:53 pm |
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
FlintTalk.com Forum Index
> Political Talk
