|
| Author
|
Post |
 
|
|
FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D
|
http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/30/real_estate/latest_OFHEO_home_prices/index.htm
Michigan is the first state in 6 years to show declining home prices year over year.
"Five states - New York, Rhode Island, Michigan, New Hampshire and Massachusetts - recorded lower prices for the quarter, according to OFHEO, with Michigan also showing a year-over-year decline of 0.6 percent.
It was the first time in six years any state reported falling prices over a 12-month period, according to the agency." |
|
|
Thu Mar 01, 2007 4:30 pm |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
Bet its more like 10% or more decline in prices here in Genesee....I've seen homes in the neighborhood on the market for more than 2 years......still with sale signs.
ugh. |
_________________
Biggie |
|
|
Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:38 pm |
|
|
Guest
|
Anybody with half a brain could have seen this coming over two decades ago. With the artificially inflated wages we were paying for general labor in the manufacturing sector, it was bound to catch up to us.
The only way for a business to survive is to pay their expenses and produce profits that therby attract investers. The corporations were forced to look elsewhere for workers that would be satisfied with a fair - market driven wage, not an inflated wage.
Hope you $80,000 per year blue collar guys enjoyed it while you had it. Cause it's never coming back, and you ruined it for your kids. |
|
|
|
Thu Mar 01, 2007 5:46 pm |
|
|
John Wilson
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
Anonymous schreef:
Hope you $80,000 per year blue collar guys enjoyed it while you had it. Cause it's never coming back, and you ruined it for your kids.
Corrected:
"Hope your $8,000,000 per year white collar CEO guys enjoyed it while it lasted, because GM is never coming back, and they ruined it for ALL kids."
P.S. Anonymous=Guest=Coward
Last edited by John Wilson on Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
Thu Mar 01, 2007 10:16 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
The only way for a business to survive is to pay their expenses and produce profits that thereby attract investors. The corporations were forced to look elsewhere for workers that would be satisfied with a fair - market driven wage, not an inflated wage.
If it was truly a Market driven wage and GM was running its business to MAKE MONEY! The average worker would be making even better money than they are NOW! GM hasn't grown in years! They’ve downsized themselves almost out of existence! And WHY shouldn't the average GM worker make as much as their Japanese counterparts in Japan? But, that's only if it were truly market driven! Oh Wait, Japanese CEOs only make a fraction of what US CEO’s make. Yet their business is growing? Market driven? Hmmm, Average employee in Japan making more than US counterpart?
Again, another one of those elitist that think a worker deserves anything more for the company than the pay check they receive. Just be grateful to have a job! Typical jealousy! |
|
|
|
Thu Mar 01, 2007 11:26 pm |
|
|
FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:
If it was truly a Market driven wage and GM was running its business to MAKE MONEY! The average worker would be making even better money than they are NOW! GM hasn't grown in years! They’ve downsized themselves almost out of existence! And WHY shouldn't the average GM worker make as much as their Japanese counterparts in Japan? But, that's only if it were truly market driven! Oh Wait, Japanese CEOs only make a fraction of what US CEO’s make. Yet their business is growing? Market driven? Hmmm, Average employee in Japan making more than US counterpart?
Again, another one of those elitist that think a worker deserves anything more for the company than the pay check they receive. Just be grateful to have a job! Typical jealousy!
I'll certainly lay a share of the blame for GM's troubles on a lack of quality leadership/management, but much of your statement is totally ludicrous. First, GM hasn't paid a market driven wage in 75 years. Second, a company with nearly $200 billion in sales is hardly "almost out of existence." Third, I'm very curious to know why you think a market driven wage would be higher than union scale. Finally, I'd like to see evidence that the Japanese worker makes more than the US worker (apples to apples, i.e. cost of living, rate of productivity, etc.).
And speaking of "typical jealousy," stop the whining about the overpaid CEO. If he worked for nothing and either paid it in dividends or split it among the workers no one would even notice the difference. |
|
|
|
Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:46 am |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
First, GM hasn't paid a market driven wage in 75 years.
really? How are CEO's salry determined? It's not based on their TRUE Market Value! Let's see Home depot loses millions under their last CEO and he recieves 200 millioin for losing money for the company? Market driven would be rewarded for good performance. Not rewarded for Bad!
GM's performance has not been good for years. THey've been loosing money and thier attention to quality BY MANAGEMENT has been deplorable! That's not the Uninons fault.
quote:
Second, a company with nearly $200 billion in sales is hardly "almost out of existence."
Hmm, talks about take overs by other car manufacturers or takeover by ONE investor. That is a strong company? One that isn't in danger of losing it's statis.
quote:
Finally, I'd like to see evidence that the Japanese worker makes more than the US worker (apples to apples, i.e. cost of living, rate of productivity, etc.).
I've already covered this with references and documenation. Since This is not my main focus at the moment. I'm not wasting my time to search for something you can just as easily find yourself online! FROM creditable sources. (not from Union blogs). It's been that way for years. In apples to apples. The japanesse autoworker has bigger apples! |
|
|
|
Fri Mar 02, 2007 3:21 pm |
|
|
FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D
|
I didn't say CEO salaries were determined by the market. You said if wages were market driven, the average worker would be making more.
Second, there is frequently "talk" about takeovers. Kirk Kerkorian can "talk" all he wants...but even in the horrible shape GM is in he still
can't buy it. And I didn't say it was a "strong" company. That is still far from "out of existence." I also never said GM wasn't "losing it's status." (Though it isn't...their status is LONG gone)
And finally, that liberal bastion New York Times says dollar for dollar average Japanese auto worker pay is barely higher than US.
http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50A16FD3A5B0C758EDDA90994DD404482
Our own State Department says Japan's "cost of living is one of the highest in the world." Which means, of course, that equal dollars will not buy nearly as much in Japan as here.
http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1148.html |
|
|
|
Fri Mar 02, 2007 9:47 pm |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
look, the bottom line is. If your going to try to compare the US to Japan, you need hold all things equal. They have prospered because they've changed with the times and they DO pay their employees better. And their wages have kept with the MARKET! US workers and Auto and others have not kept with the market!
CEO wages are not market driven! As they make many times more than they are worth, when you look at how their decisions have hurt their companies. (The argument always being they are paid outrageous wages because of decisions they make or responsibility they have.) I know employees on the floor, that have saved companies like GM and Ford millions of dollars because of suggestions that Management was almost forced into implementing. They never received a dime for their troubles. So when they forced, say GM to become more profitable, who received the reward?
But, let’s not just look at GM, What happened to Hamady’s? Was it the Union Wages they were paying that ran them out of business or mismanagement? Why did a bagger working at Kroger’s in 1977 make 9 dollars an hour when profit was reasonable and in 2005 start at minimum wage 6.50. Could the market today have born the 15 an hour cashiers were paid then, when the company makes so much more profit today while paying a whole lot less? Is that the Market deciding the wages or greed?
What does the market bear? The customer bears poor service and choices Kroger is the Main grocery store within walking distance to their house. Employees who are irritated and seemingly always depressed because they don’t make enough working their to come close to raising a family. When thirty years ago they could!
Now the Shareholders put up with it? Why? They aren’t involved. They are looking for the stock to go up and the quick buck too. Let’s see, I buy a stock today for 10.00 it goes to 14 and I sell it. The company cuts its own throat to create fictitious profit statements and the whole company goes under, Can anyone say ENRON! Let’s even say for instance that the Market drives stock price! Let’s take two stocks both selling for 20 a share. One has an EPS of 2.5 and the other -2.00 Within the next week the stock with the -2. goes to 30 a share and the other drops to 15? Has nothing to do with the market, earning or even the consumer market. There is no explanation! Oh and by the way, Did the guy who invented post it pads make it rich or the company he spent years trying to convince it was a good idea reap the benefits. A Year mind you he spent trying to get 3M to market post pads. |
|
|
|
Sun Mar 04, 2007 8:13 pm |
|
|
FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D
|
| I didn't compare us to Japan....you did. Without facts. And I say AGAIN, I never said CEO wages were market driven. |
|
|
|
Tue Mar 06, 2007 10:52 am |
|
|
Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D
|
I made the comparison to Japan because the Japanese Automakers are DRIVING the market! Seems only logical to use them as an example. We could also use the Germans, But they aren't eating up MARKET share like the Japanese are.
Exactly, you said
quote:
GM hasn't paid a market driven wage in 75 years.
In the early 70's when UAW won a fair wage. The market was very much able to handle those wages. In fact it helped the local economy grow here in Flint.
Now since then, Executives wages have gone up exponentially since then. Yet, other companies Like the Japanese, their employees wages have gone up WITH THE MARKET! GM is loosing Market share just for the many reasons we've discussed on this forum. Engineered lifespan of parts, poor selection, poor marketing.
Using the market theory of Supply an Demand. Being that the top executives are paid for their Knowledge and Responsibility. If the company is loosing money, their wages should be reflective. Just as when GM is doing poorly the MARKET dictates that they have to LAYOFF workers to cut costs.
It just seems than that we are not in disagreement than. CEO's obviously do not have wages that are tied to the companies Market share, As they make millions for loosing market share.
The hourly worker has not kept with the Market as they produce the products, save the company money, increase the companies bottom line and their wages remain stagnant. Thus not following the Market! |
|
|
|
Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:45 pm |
|
|
Bossman
F L I N T O I D
|
| I'm not sure how housing and Granholm degenerated into American vs. Japanese auto workers, but.....since you started it. I believe if you want to say comparing the workers is apples to apples, its more like crabapples to McIntosh's. The American auto worker is LAZY in comparison to their Japanese counterparts. A Japanese auto worker completes more work in a day than their American counterparts and takes more pride in their work. The unions (in this county in particular) have created a work force that feels as if they are owed something. Instead of earning their pay their theory is pay me more and I'll do some work. The other over looked factor is health care. Japan has a national health care plan that keeps the cost of health care down. In America the cost of heath care, particularly prescription drugs, is spiraling out of control. Big business is burdened with these exorbitant costs and have no choice but to pass them on to their employees. This is done either through lower wages or increased personal health care costs. |
|
|
|
Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:01 am |
|
|
JBToolFist
F L I N T O I D
|
Here's what I don't understand..........
Michigan is dead last in the country in economic growth/development. Flint is about as bad as it gets in Michigan. So extrapolate: Flint sucks! It's one of the worst places to live in the country right now.
And yet we're still holding to those Robinhood like ideals of "steal from the rich and give to the poor." "hate "the man", "screw the corporation because they're evil profit hungry boogie men"
When is this city going to wake up and realize.................the only way to appreciate something is to earn it..........and the only way to earn something is to work for it!
Gimme a friggin break Flint...........the Democratic party ideals and the union mentality completely f***ed you over. Time to learn from your mistakes and move on. |
|
|
|
Fri Mar 09, 2007 6:30 pm |
|
|
John Wilson
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
JBToolFist schreef:
Gimme a friggin break Flint...........the Democratic party ideals and the union mentality completely f***ed you over. Time to learn from your mistakes and move on.
Yah, you're right man, it was those Democratic GM executive board liberals that did in Flint! They were so gung ho about keeping the plants open that it ruined GM! Even after they kept all the plants open and running all throughout the 80's, 90's and today, GM still couldn't keep its market share or its profitability. Those idiots!
Just think, maybe if they would have shut Buick City down, demolished Chevy, torn down Fisher Body, and dumped 80,000 high paying jobs, GM might be the super profitable mecca and world automotive leader it is today!
Wait... |
|
|
|
Sat Mar 10, 2007 3:59 am |
|
|
Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
|
wait....
fellows there is MORE than enough blame to around here guys.
everyone had a hand in "who killed GM....." |
_________________
Biggie |
|
|
Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:10 pm |
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
FlintTalk.com Forum Index
> Political Talk
