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Adam Ford.
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051224/ap_on_re_us/people_driven_politics
I think this is a good story for us. maybe we can start a political movement going in Flint. Anyone willing to support a Republican candidacy for mayor? lol
This is part of the story
"FORT MYERS, Fla. - Frustrated by government and empowered by technology, Americans are filling needs and fighting causes through grass-roots organizations they built themselves — some sophisticated, others quaintly ad hoc. This is the era of people-driven politics.
From a homemaker-turned-kingmaker in Pittsburgh to dog owners in New York to a "gym rat" here in southwest Florida, people are using the Internet to do what politicians can't — or won't — do.
This is their story, but it's also an American story because ordinary folks are doing the extraordinary to find people with similar interests, organize them and create causes and connections."
Click the above link to read more.
Adam Ford
http://mysearchisover.com
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Sat Dec 24, 2005 8:41 pm |
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Terry Bankert
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You beat me to the post. here is my twist on the same base article. Note this is not about partisanship.-trb 10:31 am 12/25/05
Can the Internet Foster a Local Good Government Political Movement in Flint MI USA?
FLINT CITIZEN- By: Terry Bankert 12/25/05
[Comments of terry bankert are in captions. Deleted text is shown by ...-trb]
"Internet Fosters Local Political Movements"
By RON FOURNIER, AP Political Writer Sat Dec 24,10:04 PM
link:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051225/ap_on_el_ge/people_driven_politics;_ylt=AlPdxWWoPs8nqiO5_xAA.wOs0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3OXIzMDMzBHNlYwM3MDM-
FORT MYERS, Fla. - Frustrated by government and empowered by technology, Americans are filling needs and fighting causes through grass-roots organizations they built themselves — some sophisticated, others quaintly ad hoc. This is the era of people-driven politics.
[ In Flint we use Flint talk, TV 12, TV5, TV 66, Dave Barber , Flint Journal talk back written and electronic , the Uncommon Sense, East Village Magazine, CPS Courier, Flint Enquirer , Bob Leonard, IN MY OPIN ION Michael Moores Rambling Sam Riddles contracts and other sites , and avenues of information exchange, I don’t know of, just to keep informed of Flints real issues. But have any of the participant rallied around a local issue and caused change? In not why not?-trb]
From a homemaker-turned-kingmaker in Pittsburgh to dog owners in New York to a "gym rat" here in southwest Florida, people are using the Internet to do what politicians can't — or won't — do.
This is their story, but it's also an American story because ordinary folks are doing the extraordinary to find people with similar interests, organize them and create causes and connections.
"People are just beginning to realize how much power they have," said Chris Kofinis, a Democratic consultant who specializes in grass-roots organizing via the Internet.
"At a time when we are craving community and meaning in our lives, people are using these technologies to find others with the same complaints and organize them," he said. "They don't have to just sit in a coffee shop and gripe about politics. They can change politics."
Mary Shull changed her life, if not politics.
A lonely and frustrated liberal, the stay-at-home mother of two joined the liberal online group MoveOn.org in 2004.
I was upset with Kerry's loss, but what really devastated me was the loss of that sense of empowerment in my life, this sense of engagement, that I got with MoveOn," she said.
Shull, 31, was brimming with ideas for liberal causes, but MoveOn had virtually shut down after the election and the Democratic Party was catatonic. So she took matters in her own hands, e-mailing the 1,500 contacts she had made through MoveOn and asking if they wanted to keep busy.
Their first meeting drew 85 people. They got involved in local races, and Shull tended to her e-mail list — each name coded with the person's pet issue.
"This wasn't about a huge agenda. This was people gathering together and working with each other on things that interested them," she said. "It was just a way for people to connect with each other."
Politicians took notice. When former Rep. Joe Hoeffel decided he might want to run for lieutenant governor, he called Shull and asked for her support.
"Ten years ago, somebody like Mary would be as interested as she is in politics, but her circle of influence would not have extended beyond her home or block or even voting precinct," said Hoeffel, a Democrat who gave up his House seat in 2004 for an unsuccessful Senate bid.
"Now, she's got 1,500 other self-motivated and influential people at her fingertips, and carries as much clout as half the people I've been calling."
[ First I am not trying to lead anything. I am 54 , and I have had my 15 minuets of fame. ( Flint Ombudsman 1987-94). What I would like to do is be part of a process to cause real debate about real issues, not personalities, that are important to the future of Flint MI. Second I do not believe that I am right on all issues. But it is important to take positions, listen to others and have an open mind. Third we need a reinvigoration of people to choose to become involved in the improvement of Flints, political, business, artistic , educational etc.. communities. How should this occur? How can we encourage the 100's of qualified but silent leaders we have in Flint to come forward. Just because we write does not mean we are right! Truth is found in the cross pollination of assertive exchange of ideas. Where do we begin? -trb]
The Flint Citizen is a publication of Attorney Terry R. Bankert (Family Law ) of Flint Michigan USA.
http://enewsblog.com/terrybankert/
attorneybankert@yahoo.com
vita: http://enewsblog.com/terrybankert/post/2005-11-08_04:52:35/
Terry R. Bankert P.C., 1000 Beach St., Flint MI 48503 810.235.1970 fax 234-5080 |
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Sun Dec 25, 2005 10:32 am |
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Adam Ford
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Well I'm only 25 and am ready for my 15 minutes or 15 years of fame to lead the charge. The question is can I get support? Martin Luther King really didn't do anything spectacular. All he did was give good speeches and lead marches. It was the millions of people that followed him that really brought about the change. One person alone is relatively powerless.
Adam Ford
webmaster@mysearchisover.com
http://mysearchisover.com
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Sun Dec 25, 2005 8:51 pm |
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Terry Bnakert
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Then give good speeches, make proposals, cause things to happen. Every initiative begins with one person, 5 people can cause a movement, 10 people can cause a revolution of thought. But politics is about generating support for ideas , to build coalitions to exert influence on public resource decisions. We cannot start in a vacum. Issues have histories, frame works of thought and established constituencies. Its easy to speak in generalities. The devil is in the details and focusing on an objective, building a coalition of like minded people and becoming a decision maker or influencing the decision makers and other interest groups.
Where will you start? Pick an issue! |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:40 am |
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terrybankert
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quote:
Terry Bnakert schreef:
Then give good speeches, make proposals, cause things to happen. Every initiative begins with one person, 5 people can cause a movement, 10 people can cause a revolution of thought. But politics is about generating support for ideas , to build coalitions to exert influence on public resource decisions. We cannot start in a vacum. Issues have histories, frame works of thought and established constituencies. Its easy to speak in generalities. The devil is in the details and focusing on an objective, building a coalition of like minded people and becoming a decision maker or influencing the decision makers and other interest groups.
Where will you start? Pick an issue!
"All this will not be finished in the first one hundred days.
Nor will it be finished in the first one thousand days. . .
nor in the life of this administration,
nor even perhaps in our lifetime on this planet.
But let us begin."
John F Kennedy, January 20, 1961 |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:52 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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I guess what We are getting at is how to start? Terry, you've already been involved in politics here in Flint and understand how they work. I think I might be able to convince Josh to get involved if he doesn't already have too much on his plate. He's always been involved in groups on the eastside. (unlike our new carpetbagger councilman). Personally, I believe Crime is our biggest issue in Flint. The problem is. While, I think neighborhood watches are a good idea. It doesn't do any good to report crime or even point out a suspect if our police dept refuses to take action. Thus, the reason I think we might want to sit down and discuss ways to influence the Mayor to get off his rear and require accountability in the Police Dept.
(Side Note) One of the things that bugs me about some of the leaders of groups that speak before the council meetings, they petition the wrong people for action. I’ve watched many different small group leaders get up and rail against the council former and new about problems that the council has no control on. People, need to be informed, educated about the local government. How it works and who they should go to. The last election was a perfect example of how people vote in this city. I take that back, every election. Back when Stanley was Mayor and running. He would send out Limo’s to pick people up to vote. Don sent out people for Sandy Hill to mow people’s lawns and trim trees. What about the issues? Most people I talk to just plain spout out that the Former Council was stealing money. Or some other ignorant claim. Mostly just repeating what Don Williamson was saying.
So, I guess the next problem once we decide on a issues is “HOW TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT! It sure doesn’t involve the Flint Journal, unless we actually pay for an article to be put in word for word. They fail to provide facts so that people can make their own decisions. They continuously reference “the Mayor said” or “the police chief said.” It doesn’t seem to matter that what they say isn’t biased in facts or studies, or even legitimate prior practices. Their argument about the Ombudsman office is an excellent example. They set it up to fail then claim it’s failure as proof that it’s not needed.
The internet is an excellent way to get information out to the public. In Flint it is still not a popular enough media medium to reach enough people. Now, the Uncommon Sense is an excellent medium. However, it doesn’t have a large enough readership to reach enough people. Channel 17, is a great way to get the message across. However, I am probably one of the few people that religiously watch the Council and Bob Leonard. I’d be watching Eric Mayes also, except he has only had one show so far that I can remember. And how many voters really watch these types of shows?
These are the things we would need to sit down together and figure out.
Pointing out the Mayor’s mistakes and Councils mistakes after the fact isn’t constructive to the cause. We need to figure out a way to influence the decision making before they do it. Josh has stood before the council already three times and pointed out serious problems with the way they are voting and their reasoning behind their vote. It doesn’t do any good. That is where we need to create influence! Plus the Mayor’s office. The problem I see with all politics is that MONEY is what makes the most influence. I don’t have any to pay off politicians. To donate to their campaigns. I’m frustrated with the whole process. I believe we did have some good people on the council that truly wanted to make Flint a better place. Not because of money. Because it is the right thing to do. |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:21 am |
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Terry Bankert
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Ted Jankowski Said:
I guess what We are getting at is how to start?
[Terry Bankert response:] Start here, talk about issues not personalities. The campaign is over. You need the Mayor and council people to be persuaded to your thoughts. Why attack them personally?
Ted Jankowski Said:
Terry, you've already been involved in politics here in Flint and understand how they work.
[Terry Bankert response:] I lost the election, by definition I had a bad message, a bad campaign process, or both. Additionally I’ve been there. The Mayor and Council will listen to you and people like you before me. You represent new citizen interest, exactly what we need in Flint. We need a couple of hundred like you , all races and ethnic groups.
Ted Jankowski Said:
I think I might be able to convince Josh to get involved if he doesn't already have too much on his plate.
[Terry Bankert response:] Now you need another 99.
Ted Jankowski Said:
He's always been involved in groups on the eastside. (unlike our new carpetbagger councilman).
[Terry Bankert response:] Why attack the sitting council person in this public forum? How do expect her to respect you when you have a good idea you would like to sell to the community.
Ted Jankowski Said:
Personally, I believe Crime is our biggest issue in Flint.
[Terry Bankert response:] I agree. Now what? A little research. Find people who are also interested in crime reduction. What can the city do? What can the citizens do?
Ted Jankowski Said:
The problem is. While, I think neighborhood watches are a good idea. It doesn't do any good to report crime or even point out a suspect if our police dept refuses to take action.
[Terry Bankert response:] Speak out for better police response. But you have to do your homework and hear their side.
Ted Jankowski Said:
Thus, the reason I think we might want to sit down and discuss ways to influence the Mayor to get off his rear and require accountability in the Police Dept.
[Terry Bankert response:] We can do it here. Mabey others will join us.
Ted Jankowski Said:
(Side Note) One of the things that bugs me about some of the leaders of groups that speak before the council meetings, they petition the wrong people for action. I’ve watched many different small group leaders get up and rail against the council former and new about problems that the council has no control on.
[Terry Bankert response:] Exactly my point above, its counter productive.. You just did the same thing.
Ted Jankowski Said:
People, need to be informed, educated about the local government.
[Terry Bankert response:] You can do it. What process do you recommend.
Ted Jankowski Said:
How it works and who they should go to. The last election was a perfect example of how people vote in this city. I take that back, every election. Back when Stanley was Mayor and running. He would send out Limo’s to pick people up to vote. Don sent out people for Sandy Hill to mow people’s lawns and trim trees.
[Terry Bankert response:] The election is over. Move on.
Ted Jankowski Said:
What about the issues? Most people I talk to just plain spout out that the Former Council was stealing money. Or some other ignorant claim. Mostly just repeating what Don Williamson was saying.
[Terry Bankert response:] Lest talk about crime reduction in depth.
Ted Jankowski Said:
So, I guess the next problem once we decide on a issues is “HOW TO GET THE MESSAGE OUT!
[Terry Bankert response:] We are doing it right now.
Ted Jankowski Said:
It sure doesn’t involve the Flint Journal, unless we actually pay for an article to be put in word for word. They fail to provide facts so that people can make their own decisions. They continuously reference “the Mayor said” or “the police chief said.” It doesn’t seem to matter that what they say isn’t biased in facts or studies, or even legitimate prior practices. Their argument about the Ombudsman office is an excellent example. They set it up to fail then claim it’s failure as proof that it’s not needed.
[Terry Bankert response:] 100 active vocal new citizen activists can change everything. It’s not always money it can be people and it can be good ideas
Ted Jankowski Said:
The internet is an excellent way to get information out to the public. In Flint it is still not a popular enough media medium to reach enough people. Now, the Uncommon Sense is an excellent medium. However, it doesn’t have a large enough readership to reach enough people. Channel 17, is a great way to get the message across. However, I am probably one of the few people that religiously watch the Council and Bob Leonard. I’d be watching Eric Mayes also, except he has only had one show so far that I can remember. And how many voters really watch these types of shows?
[Terry Bankert response:] Plenty of people watch read and hear the media you have mentioned. Old fashioned public speaking to groups works also.
Ted Jankowski Said:
These are the things we would need to sit down together and figure out.
[Terry Bankert response:] We can figure it out here.
Ted Jankowski Said:
Pointing out the Mayor’s mistakes and Councils mistakes after the fact isn’t constructive to the cause. We need to figure out a way to influence the decision making before they do it.
[Terry Bankert response:] See above. Lets stop attacking the sitting council and the mayor on campaign issues. Lets advocate good governmental policies and critique them with a factual argument to the community when appropriate.
Ted Jankowski Said:
Josh has stood before the council already three times and pointed out serious problems with the way they are voting and their reasoning behind their vote. It doesn’t do any good. That is where we need to create influence! Plus the Mayor’s office.
[Terry Bankert response:] You should speak out also.
Ted Jankowski Said:
The problem I see with all politics is that MONEY is what makes the most influence. I don’t have any to pay off politicians. To donate to their campaigns.
[Terry Bankert response:] A Political campaign is a process only the weak are bought off . You do what you have to do. If you lose get over it an move on. If you win ,to sell your good ideas you have to act differently. That life.
Ted Jankowski Said:
I’m frustrated with the whole process. I believe we did have some good people on the council that truly wanted to make Flint a better place. Not because of money. Because it is the right thing to do.
[Terry Bankert response:] You have made my point for me. Argue issues and build community coalitions. Change will come. |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 12:15 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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quote:
[Terry Bankert response:] Why attack the sitting council person in this public forum? How do expect her to respect you when you have a good idea you would like to sell to the community.
I choose to continue because she chooses to ignore the people in her ward. I know of a few people that have wasted their time calling her about the same issuses. She doesn't have an answer. After she voted on the purchase of the Police Vehicles, I called and asked her politely about the purchase. Why did we purchase them when they cost more to own overall. I realise the Mayor and the Cheif are saying one thing, but all the evidence says that it's not true. Have you looked into it? (she said no, but that she would) I then asked about the safety rating. Since it was mentioned that they wer supposed to be safer for the officer. I mentioned that all the independant studies showed it to less safe, with higher factors for stopping, rollover and impact, The gravity forces on the passengers is much higher in the Tahoe over the Impala. (again she said she ddn't know but would look into it) Then I asked about why it was never put up competitive bid. Does she really know that we got the best price? Without a bid to compare the price to how do we know if we got the best deal? (again she said she'd look into it) My final question wasn't really a question it was more of an expression of disgust. Why didn't the contract to to a Flint dealership? I expressed my feeling that it didn't make sense to purchase them from outside the city, when they could have been purchased here in Flint. And that I wasn't thrilled with the idea of rejecting the Impala because the motor was built here in FLint. So far that was weeks ago. I've never heard another thing. As a citizen of this city and a member of her ward. I personally believe she is fair game for citicism. She continues to prove herself not capable of representing the people in her ward. She refuses to be a Check or Balance with her vote on the council. I mentioned the stuff before the election because it's something everybody could relate to. My own personal conversations are not public knowledge. It was just to show character or lack there of. If I am ever elected to any office. I expect the people I represent to hold me accountable also. Nothing more.
quote:
[Terry Bankert response:] Speak out for better police response. But you have to do your homework and hear their side.
This one does get under my skin. I've heard their side for 10 years, undermanned, not enough pay, no contract. It's hard to convince me they even have a side when they can respond to a dog barking in 10 minutes. Then tell you you cannot detain a purse snatcher, or someone breaking into your home because "you are in the wrong for detaining him." Or that "they are not sending anyone out to arrest them." I'm sorry I fail to see what "Their Side" could be? |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:21 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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quote:
(Side Note) One of the things that bugs me about some of the leaders of groups that speak before the council meetings, they petition the wrong people for action. I’ve watched many different small group leaders get up and rail against the council former and new about problems that the council has no control on.
[Terry Bankert response:] Exactly my point above, its counter productive.. You just did the same thing.
Actually I didn't. I am pointing out what is going on now. I'm using more known about situations because not everyone watches the council meetings. that's why I point to htings that happened during and before the elections. They are still happening. But in this example. The gentleman was complaining about something that the city councilman had now ability to do anything about except to write a referral. The Current council allowed the man to run down the former councilman because DON wasn't doing his job. No one there corrected this guys misunderstanding as it worked for their betterment. Had Taylor still been on the council, he would have corrected that. So when the council does it. It's ok for them to allow people to make allegations against the former council when it benefits themselves. but not for me to point it out? I wouldn't be able to work under those restraints. I'll take a lot of criticism. but, I will not put up with criticism that I cannot defend or that is based in a lie. I realize that's politics. but, that's not me. It's right wrong or a compromise. But, I won't stand for a misunderstanding being held up and questioned. When it is accepted as fact without no one stepping up to the plate and correcting it. it becomes a lie. Unintentional or not.
[/quote] |
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Mon Dec 26, 2005 3:34 pm |
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Plato
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How do you contribute to making your city better! You are Living in a sewage pond with diamonds on the lillies. What will you add. By your own words start with cime reduction.
1.talk to your peers.
2.talk to commiunity groups.
3. analyize the police agencies, how are they funded. How should their money be appropriated differently, what other agencies can bring Flints crime issues into focus, how can the community help?
4.Speak out, make proposals, show how other cities are doing it right. Decide if you want to lead or follow.
The view never changes unless you are the leader of the pack.
It can be a small pack!
The easy way out for you is to loudly say it stinks, we are in a sewage pond. The harder thing is to grab a diamond, add value to you community.
-----end----- |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:17 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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quote:
1.talk to your peers.
That I have, and most of my peers say to move out. Now the people I talk to in the nieghborhood have been robbed so many times and the police response has been well below medicority. It's like climbing a brick wall. No one wants to get involved. Most of my peers are working and saving to move out of this area.
quote:
2.talk to commiunity groups.
Now that I wouldn't mind doing. However, as I've noticed most of these meetings are during the day. I've found most of the meetings that I have wanted to attend have been during working hours. I've made it to a few. But they were all ones that began at or after 7:00pm.
quote:
3. Analyize the police agencies, how are they funded. How should their money be appropriated differently, what other agencies can bring Flints crime issues into focus, how can the community help?
Funding is a big issue. I do believe we should be on the receiving end of serious federal funding. Mostly because of the High crime rate here in flint. But, not only Flint. But other cities where their crime rates have put them at the top of the list for crime. Plus we need our elected officials to spend what funds we have wisely. unfortuneately this isn't happening either. The city just purchased more costly, less safe, vehicles for the police dept. I don't know what more anyone could say about that.
quote:
4.Speak out, make proposals, show how other cities are doing it right. Decide if you want to lead or follow.
http://www.richmondhillhistory.org/JackMaple.html New york did it. Florida has done it. I do believe we need some radical changes. I don't know that this area with it's extreme liberal views are willing to make the changes needed. I'd love to see it.
I spend alot of time writing and sending out letters. I've first got to put food on the table before I have time to try to help fix government. I would ask also. Are you happy with the way things are going in Flint? What are you doing yourself. It's easy to tell someone else what to do and how to do it. But, it's harder to lead by example. What are you doing to effect change? Or are you one of those people that think everything is hunky dory? |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 7:58 am |
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Socrates
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quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:
quote:
1.talk to your peers.
That I have, and most of my peers say to move out. Now the people I talk to in the nieghborhood have been robbed so many times and the police response has been well below medicority. It's like climbing a brick wall. No one wants to get involved. Most of my peers are working and saving to move out of this area.
quote:
2.talk to commiunity groups.
Now that I wouldn't mind doing. However, as I've noticed most of these meetings are during the day. I've found most of the meetings that I have wanted to attend have been during working hours. I've made it to a few. But they were all ones that began at or after 7:00pm.
quote:
3. Analyize the police agencies, how are they funded. How should their money be appropriated differently, what other agencies can bring Flints crime issues into focus, how can the community help?
Funding is a big issue. I do believe we should be on the receiving end of serious federal funding. Mostly because of the High crime rate here in flint. But, not only Flint. But other cities where their crime rates have put them at the top of the list for crime. Plus we need our elected officials to spend what funds we have wisely. unfortuneately this isn't happening either. The city just purchased more costly, less safe, vehicles for the police dept. I don't know what more anyone could say about that.
quote:
4.Speak out, make proposals, show how other cities are doing it right. Decide if you want to lead or follow.
http://www.richmondhillhistory.org/JackMaple.html New york did it. Florida has done it. I do believe we need some radical changes. I don't know that this area with it's extreme liberal views are willing to make the changes needed. I'd love to see it.
I spend alot of time writing and sending out letters. I've first got to put food on the table before I have time to try to help fix government. I would ask also. Are you happy with the way things are going in Flint? What are you doing yourself. It's easy to tell someone else what to do and how to do it. But, it's harder to lead by example. What are you doing to effect change? Or are you one of those people that think everything is hunky dory?
Good answers and nice twist back to me. I am doing it as we write. How about a Flint internet college on Good Government where we arm Flint Citizens with factual ammunition to cause social change. I write here and other places, I speak on In my Opinion on Sat evening, I will speak out on the ombudsmans issue. Iwill provide information to inform citizens to act and I will act my self. I will be a teacher, leader and follower. My pack is small.-Terry Bankert |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:20 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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Terry,
Are you happy with just posting to a Blog or to this forum. Or might you consider a more specialised website. Say, Flint_Internet_College_on_Good Government.com or FICOGG.com. It's inexpensive to build and maintain. We would have complete control over content. Even have our own message board, email, etc. I can have something like that up and running within 36 hours. Message board would take a bit longer. It would only take about an hour of sit down time to design the formatting. Plus, it would give me someone better than myself at writing a chance to proof anything I input. I really need to find a wife who is a english teacher. LOL Keep my grammar in line. |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:37 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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| Another Idea I had becuase of insurance rates here in Flint. mainly dealing with Automobiles was Lojack. I own a 1978 Vette, I also own a piece of junk van. I would love to buy a new car. But living in 48506 with the vechile theft rate on cool cars and NILL receovery rate of the FLint Police, the INSURANCE is ridiculous. Something like LOJACK would be a great investment for me. The problem is Flint isn't part of the network. The closest area is Farmington. Flint and Genesee County should be participants in something like this. |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:54 am |
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Terry Bankert
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Lets try to identify a reasonable number of people who are interested. I am not concerned with control. My thinking is to ask international experts to discuss issues with us., develop position papers, advocacy strategy plans.
As to control. I do not want it. What I want is a truly collaborative relationship with any person or organization interested in participating.
I suggest we ask as many people from as many backgrounds as we can. We will have more credibility with an open transparent agenda. |
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Tue Dec 27, 2005 9:55 am |
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