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rapunzel
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Legal Notices
A PUBLIC HEARING Will be held on 1/8/2007, at 5:30 PM in City Council Chambers, 3rd Floor, City Hall to allow the public to comment on:
063197 Amendment/ Chapter 31 (General Offenses)/ Section 31-9.1 and 31-9.2/ Daytime Curfew/Minors Under 17 An ordinance to amend the Code of the City of Flint by amending Chapter 31 General Offenses, by the addition of a new Section 31-9.1. Daytime Curfew - Minors Under 17; and the renumbering of the existing Section 31-9.1 to Section 31-9.2. It is the general purpose and intent of the City of Flint to ensure that minors are being educated on weekdays during regular school hours.
IT IS HEREBY ORDAINED BY THE PEOPLE OF THE CITY OF FLINT: Sec. 1. That the Code of the City of Flint shall be amended by amending Chapter 31, General Offenses, by the addition of a new Section 31-9.1. Daytime Curfew - Minors Under 17; and the current Section 31.9.1 shall be renumbered to Section 31.9.2 as follows: 31-9.1 DAYTIME CURFEW - MINORS UNDER 17. NO MINOR UNDER THE AGE OF 17 YEARS SHALL LOITER, IDLE, CONGREGATE OR BE IN OR ON ANY PUBLIC STREET, HIGHWAY, ALLEY, PARK OR PUBLIC PLACE BETWEEN 9:00AM AND 2:00PM, EXCEPT WHERE THE MINOR IS ACCOMPANIED BY A PARENT OR GUARDIAN OR SOME ADULT OVER THE AGE OF 21 YEARS, DELEGATED BY THE PARENT OR GUARDIAN TO ACCOMPANY THE MINOR CHILD OR WHERE THE MINOR IS UPON AN ERRAND OR OTHER LEGITIMATE BUSINESS DIRECTOR BY HIS OR HER PARENT OR GUARDIAN.
31-9.2 SAME - FAILURE OF PARENT OR GUARDIAN TO COLLECT MINOR. Any parent of a minor child who is notified that his or her minor child has been taken into custody for a violation of the Flint City Code, and who thereafter fails or refuses to collect said minor child from the authorities or make provisions therefor within a period of three hours after notification shall be guilty of a misdemeanor. Upon conviction of a violation of this section, a parent shall be a subject to a fine in the amount of the actual cost to the Police Department in arresting and detaining the minor child.
Published in Flint Journal on 12/21
I pasted this from the Journal website but a better description of the full ordinance was on page E5 in Thursday,DEC. 21 classified section. It is listed as 063196 Chapter 31 (General Offenses)/ Addition of section 31-5.4/Truancy
Peace,
RAP |
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:48 am |
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Biggie9
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so does this mean youth 17 and under can not be out of doors in public places during the day in the middle of summer?
you thought we had a child obesity problem before, especially in the poor/urban area, just wait. now we've mandated them to stay indoors and vegetate on the couch.
also, how does this rub with the fact that after age 16, by state law [per Bob Leonard] a child can legally elect to drop out of school? if said child elects to get a job, say working outdoors, are they breaking the law?
this seems well intentioned, but not very well crafted IMO. |
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Biggie |
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 1:41 pm |
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Rapunzel
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Biggie,
I did say a better (full) description was in the journal..I just could not pull it up online. It does contain exceptions for emancipations etc.
I did try to post what I had read in the paper as others had expressed wanting to read the full ordinance.
It also says " during regular school hours". In my interpretation that would exclude spring break, winter break, half days and even summer break.
If you interpret that differently perhaps you should ask the language be clarified at the public hearing?
Thanks,
RAP |
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Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:53 pm |
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John Wilson
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Biggie9 schreef:
so does this mean youth 17 and under can not be out of doors in public places during the day in the middle of summer? you thought we had a child obesity problem before, especially in the poor/urban area, just wait. now we've mandated them to stay indoors and vegetate on the couch. also, how does this rub with the fact that after age 16, by state law [per Bob Leonard] a child can legally elect to drop out of school? if said child elects to get a job, say working outdoors, are they breaking the law? this seems well intentioned, but not very well crafted IMO.
Basic lesson in constitutional law:
Federal law trumps all state and local laws
State law trumps all local laws
Here is my interpretation -- I could be wrong -- if the state has a law that says you can drop out at 16, and you've done so (by legally withdrawing and filling out the paperwork) the cops will just ask you if you are supposed to be in school or not. When they call in the student to the dispatcher, if the kid is skipping, they're busted. If they are legally discharged from school, they are on their happy way.
This law has potential. Reads a bit heavy handed but we're AT WAR with Flint kids on their "edumacation" (that's a line from a track called "My Teacher" from the very talented Flint rapper named Hookdignious)
This ordinance is toothless without enforcement. It forces parents to really get on their kids though. Mis-d's are not fun if they start racking up fines and court costs and stuff like that.
Also, I'm hoping that it gives cops a little more power to stop a kid they "know" might be dealing, packing, or some other reason but don't have probable cause. This ordinance gives them the chance to get guns and drugs off the streets. That's why they passed it.
Attention police: PLEASE DO NOT ABUSE this orginance. Or it'll get a nice fat constitutional challenge from the ACLU. |
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 12:07 am |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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| i suspect, it, like most suspicious laws, will get a challenge right away. And should. |
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Biggie |
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:08 am |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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ps - what would it have taken to have made it more "airtight" one, two more paragraphs?
I do like the aspect of the police shaking down & harrassing groups of young kids on a mid-July day though. Ought to reduce the crowding at Blue Bell beach and all the city parks. Now that does sound good.
Young people, stay in your homes while us old farts are out, come out after midnight when we are all snuggled safely behind our triple-locked doors and barred windows, clutching our 12 guages.....yeee haaaaa |
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Biggie |
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 1:14 am |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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Flint doesn't want any minor under 17 to loiter, idle, congregate or be in or on any public street, highway, alley, park or public place between 9 AM and 2 PM except when . . . .
Perhaps the City should consider addiing another ordinance provision, similar to state law, that anyone 16 years or older who assists, aids, abets, allows, permits or encourages a minor to violate the provisions of the ordinance would be guilty of a misdemeanor.
Michigan's curfew law for children says "Nothing in this act shall be deemed to limit any powers now or hereafter possessed by law by any . . . city . . . to regulate by ordinance a curfew of minors."
The object is to get teens off the streets and back in school, and to cut down on crime. If a 16-year-old dropout has a job, even outdoors, it should be obvious he is working and shouldn't be charged with violating the ordinance. |
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Sat Dec 23, 2006 11:03 pm |
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rapunzel
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OOSL2- your language is clear.-ordinance says parent ,It should be as you said anyone 16 years or older that aids, abets....
31-5.5 Violation and Penalty
a) If the minor of a parent residing within the city commits a delinquent act the parent shall be guility of a violation of this article if:
I.
II.-------------------------
A REBUTTAL RESUMPTION that the minor committed a delinquent act with the knowledge, allowance, permission or sufferance of the parent.
Parents do not always know the child is not at school...thinking they are safe. I was good at entering the front door of the school and exiting out the back. It's my older friends that encouraged me to find FUN things to do.
Peace,
RAP |
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Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:43 am |
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rapinzel
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correction- A Rebuttable Presumption
sorry,
RAP |
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Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:46 am |
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Jim Knotts
Guest
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quote:
Roscoe Van Zandt schreef:
quote:
Biggie9 schreef:
so does this mean youth 17 and under can not be out of doors in public places during the day in the middle of summer? you thought we had a child obesity problem before, especially in the poor/urban area, just wait. now we've mandated them to stay indoors and vegetate on the couch. also, how does this rub with the fact that after age 16, by state law [per Bob Leonard] a child can legally elect to drop out of school? if said child elects to get a job, say working outdoors, are they breaking the law? this seems well intentioned, but not very well crafted IMO.
Basic lesson in constitutional law:
Federal law trumps all state and local laws
State law trumps all local laws
Here is my interpretation -- I could be wrong -- if the state has a law that says you can drop out at 16, and you've done so (by legally withdrawing and filling out the paperwork) the cops will just ask you if you are supposed to be in school or not. When they call in the student to the dispatcher, if the kid is skipping, they're busted. If they are legally discharged from school, they are on their happy way.
This law has potential. Reads a bit heavy handed but we're AT WAR with Flint kids on their "edumacation" (that's a line from a track called "My Teacher" from the very talented Flint rapper named Hookdignious)
This ordinance is toothless without enforcement. It forces parents to really get on their kids though. Mis-d's are not fun if they start racking up fines and court costs and stuff like that.
Also, I'm hoping that it gives cops a little more power to stop a kid they "know" might be dealing, packing, or some other reason but don't have probable cause. This ordinance gives them the chance to get guns and drugs off the streets. That's why they passed it.
Attention police: PLEASE DO NOT ABUSE this orginance. Or it'll get a nice fat constitutional challenge from the ACLU.
Gosh you think you know it all don't you Roscoe Van Zandt, but you are wrong about this. |
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Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:09 am |
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Jayjenkins
F L I N T O I D
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| perhaps there should be a minimum amount of community service attached to the ordinance |
_________________
Jay Jenkins
Domo Arigato Mr. Roboto
(Dennis DeYoung) |
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Sun Dec 24, 2006 1:17 am |
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