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Mon Dec 18, 2006 6:55 pm |
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Biggie9
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Thamks, Larry.
I don't believe anyone doubted that Poplar brought something to the council and the city attorney. But. The devil is in the details.
There are very few in the document posted. Its easy to characterize in Ms Poplar's version, that the applicant was the proactive party...."what can I do?.." "i am interested in helping children"...what Ms Poplar doesn't state, but which may have been an issue, is that the applicant MAY HAVE only decided to help Ward 2 children when Ms Poplar made it clear there was a quid pro quo...you want your license expeditied? cough up some dough to my scholarship program. Again the above statement is speculative and just an example of what might have transpired.
Same with Ms Poplar's interaction with the city attorney's office or any other coucil member.
Its one thing to present: "hey I am setting up a program whereby business owners, private citizens, charities etc can make contributions to an education scholarship fund that will award, annually, an amount of money to the X top students at Y High School. Are there any legal issues in doing so yada yada"......
Problem is, she doesn't dicuss or raise the issue that she might be soliciting said support from parties that have business in front of her that requires her action in capacity of her office. If she neglected to address those details OR, the attorney doesn't probe her plan/program to inform her what is and is not legal behavior and legal contributuions, then she doesn't know and as we've seen, she goes off and breaks the law.
So I await to hear from the other parties just what their recollection of the details were.
Somehow, I bet the party store owner would recollect things differently if they had no risk in future entanglements with her. But they may, so for $500 bucks, they got her out their hair. I bet they are used to paying such baksheesh doing business back in the old country anyway.
Actually, I lied. I really don't care. It would help settle the issue, but its moot now anyway, since the issue has been investigated and resolved.
Merry Christmas Charlie Brown!!! |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:28 pm |
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marcos
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So how would any of the council people know that she extorted the money? They never knew, so far, all they know is that the business owners voluntarilly gave up cash without Poplar's order or strong advice, hell I would of voted yes too. It seems she told the council and law department I want to approve this license "oh and the business owners, since Im helping them, are giving cash to people in my ward, without my order or cohersion, isn that great!"
my point is they all knew, but never knew she cohersed them to pay.. If they even did volunteer to give up the money, then they wouldn't of filed a complaint with the AG Office in the first place.
Here is a quote from Channel 12 a couple months ago...
FBI investigates Flint City Council member
Second Ward Councilwoman Jackie Poplar denies wrongdoing
By Taryn Asher
FLINT (WJRT) - (07/26/06)-- A member of the Flint City Council is being investigated by the FBI on allegations of extortion.
Jackie Poplar, who represents Flint's Second Ward, could be facing federal charges.
The investigation deals with liquor license transfers and some party stores located in Poplar's ward.
The FBI started looking into Jackie Poplar's actions after a party store owner alerted authorities. Pierre Najjar owns the Shop-N-Go mini-mart at the corner of Pierson and Fleming in Flint.
Najjar says he came forward after Poplar promised him City Council approval for the transfer of a liquor license for his party store, if they paid her $500 in return.
He claims he did not agree to pay the money, but other nearby party stores did.
"Hey I'm not going to approve unless you do this and that not the way to do it. In our case, or the other people's cases, the mayor has approved it the, chief has approved it. That left the City Council and the way the City Council works is the way I've seen it work. They all help each other out - doesn't matter if it's right or wrong, that is where the mess up is," Najjar said.
ABC12 reporter Taryn Asher spoke to Jackie Poplar on the phone today. Poplar denied the allegations against her.
The City Council President claims he is unaware of these claims. Calls to the city attorney have not been returned.
Council member Sheldon Neeley said that the City Council as a whole approves liquor license transfers based on the recommendation of the person who represents that ward.
The FBI is not commenting on this case |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:31 pm |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 8:04 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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| Ok Marcos, How about the rest of the story? hmm? Not just the half of the story from the One store owner. How about the other? What does the Other say? Did you bother to find out if the one that all of a sudden decided he was being extorted (after knowing full well he could get the transfer without city council approval) when the STATE delayed the transfer? Hmmm Where does this guy get all this information... I don't accept half truths! Keep reading the Flint Urinal and listen to TV12. We already know that TV12 and TV25 can report on the same story and it be completely different. The Flint Journal doesn't even know the difference between Mundy Township and Flint Township, they don't even know Rankin in not in Swartz Creek! If they cannot read a map. How do you expect them to report honestly or legitimately (give the whole story) on any story. |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:03 pm |
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Marcos
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| The point is she extorted money, dosnt matter from how many store owners.. She told the law departmentt and council she would fund a scholarship fund, but never said she cohersed them... she made it seem as though they volunteered. And I'm curious, what half truth am I stating? Its clear she extorted money, now she tries to blame her colleages and law department for her wrong doing. Now i'm sure you and Josh will try to avoid that or twist it, but that is what it is. Now if this was the Gonzales or Hill, everyone, ya'll two would be condemning them like I am doing Poplar. |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:38 pm |
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Josh Freeman
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| I've stated previously that what she did was wrong. And I also stated previously that if folks were so outraged by her act why did they vote for it. I think that is a valid question. |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:49 pm |
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Marcos
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| And again... If she presented this to you, you nkow these men since I approve their licenses, voluntarilly gave their money up to fund scholarships, then I would support, it seems she didnt coherse them or even extort the money. But she didnt tell them Hey I made these guys pay me 500 and now I'll approve their licenses or better yet support since she only has 1 vote. She told half her porgram and wrongdoing to the Council, they wouldnt have suspected such a respected woman would do it and when they found she went about it the wrong way, they asked her to resign. |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:57 pm |
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Marcos
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| Hey Josh, Citizens For Accountable Government... I would propose your group look into this.. I would like to ask u a favor. The City Council Has Investigative Power, so maybe your group can ask the Council this: They should look in to how she went about and see if her statements on Council (for example she told other members her plan) are true and if she really told them the whole story instead of just her and these business owners would fund such a thing. |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:06 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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Josh, It's like talking to a broken record. No matter what your say to this guy! No matter what the WHOLE story is. Mistakes are not allowed. Even mistakes that had the blessing of everybody in the room! Everybody in the room. No matter if it was spelled out word for word and letter for letter. Everybody, Knew exactly what had happened. It was perfectly clear. I didn't see the problem, The council didn't see the problem, The City attorney didn't see the problem. So We are all fools and idiots and Marcos is the all knowing and perfect GOD that we should bow at his feet! Personally, I wouldn't have done it! Because of the appearance. And when you consider that NO one speaking out against Ms. Poplar seems to care enough to speak out about the OT paid to parks employees because Campaign workers were given OT to work on the Mayor's Wife's Campaign! Nor do any of them see a problem with the Mayor DEMANDING a 189,000 dollar payoff in order for Mr. Riley to get building permits. They really don’t care about the law or the letter of the law. It’s just get those that don’t find the Mayor God’s geatest gift to the city of Flint.
These are the same people who have the intelligence to understand that a LEASED vehicle would NOT HAVE dealer Plates on them! Yet Choose not to care. However, ignorance of the Law is just fine if your rich and are able to buy votes! Probably the same people that think that Since the Mayor brought the resolution to council to pay them their back pay! That they went to his office and held him at gun point and made him write it out and submit it to them for them to sign! And now they STOLE THIER MONEY! But they don't have any problem with loosing 140,000 dollars to the Flint Journal carrier for illegal arrest of a Journal carrier. But of Course, Here again, Ignorance of the Law doesn't apply if you have Money and can BUY votes!
Ms. Poplar doesn't have the luxury of having a Slick Governmental operations officer to spin or cover up every (in her case the only) stupid thing that she’s done.
These are the same type of people that will sit there and applaud the Mayor when he announces a "MAJOR REDUCTION IN CRIME IN 2005" because of "GOOD TEAMWORK AN LEADERSHIP" when the city's own website shows that crime went up another 13 percent from the year before! Which BTW went up 17 percent the year before under the same "good teamwork and leadership" Following a real and actual 10 year trend of declining crime in Flint!
Hey I just got a sliver in my toe. How about coming over and cutting off my foot! That should solve the problem.
Seems to me it makes more sense to do what the FBI did. Point out the error. Make retribution, learn from it. Then don’t do it again! Now, if she ever does something remotely close to this again! We will all be right there jumping on the bandwagon to get her off the council! How about until then. Giver her the benefit of the doubt. The Justice system seems to be willing to! Why waste time looking into something that a higher authority already determined wasn’t worthy of prosecution. The people are going to scrutinizing everything she does from now on. |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:54 pm |
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Marcos
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| Hmm, I must all we'll give it up.. Its clear that some people are biased and don't want to accept things... I call for an Ombudsman Investigation or a Council to see just what she said to the Attorney... Ted let me ask you, would you or did suspect she extorted money or these business owners just gave the money up for the good of the community? |
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Mon Dec 18, 2006 11:06 pm |
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John
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I am all for cleaning up Flint, lets start with getting Ryan Eashoo off the Historical soceity, and removing MS. Jackie "I gots a big hatt" Poplar.
They are both are bad for Flint, lets start the Flint Talk Wall of Shame. |
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Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:40 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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Let's See!
Did she influence them! Absolutely!
No more or less than if she had asked them for money a week later, and not even mentioned supporting their license transfer. Would they have felt pressured then? Absolutely!
Now, Did they know, that if she did or didn't support their license transfer that they could/would petition the state for the transfer. And that if the council or any member had no JUST CAUSE to not support the transfer that they would be able to get it? Sure they did!
Did she threaten that if they didn't give money that she would deny, spoil, get dismissed, delay or even vote against their transfer? Ah Haa... NOPE! She never threaten to not vote for the transfer! She already knew that she could not hold up a liquor license transfer if she did not have "Just cause."
One owner just felt betrayed when after they had given the KIDS!! NOT HER! the money. That when his license transfer didn't go through right away. He had been betrayed! Ms. Poplar could not have guaranteed that the rest of the council would vote to approve it. however, without just cause for denying it, what could she really do? They would have been able to get it done anyway! And they DID KNOW THAT!
You don't think that this is the same thing (only on a grander scale) the the Mayor has done with Mr. Donahue and Hatch? Here the Mayor went out of his way to run this guy out of Tavern on The Green, just so his buddy (campaign supporter) could get the lease! And a rather "sweet heart deal" it is..
This is the First Snaffoo that Ms. Poplar has done. I'm pretty willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Just as I did for Months, with the Don when he took over! I wrote letters directly to him! Asking that he follow his own campaign promises. Asking for updates on when things were going to happen. Not so much as a word back from his office! How long do you accept silence and inaction as a "benefit of doubt"? after three months I lost confidence. Then after 6 I began to get involved. I would have been willing to let the Flint Journal carrier thing go also had it not been such a farce! Don’t read the Journal or my full page ads! Yeah right! What payoff did he owe that carrier? He didn’t have to pay! WE DID!
Had he actually brought accountability to Flint Government. Had he done in earnest or at least we had been able to see that he was working towards doing even half of the things he said he was going to do! I’d be more willing to continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. But when I discover that News stories about Club 810 are reported to benefit him and that other media outlets report something completely different about the same account. I wonder. Or when he breaks up church dances than holds press conferences about how he is closing down clubs! Or fighting crime by making officers waste time handing out ticket that he and the officers KNOW will (AND DID) get thrown out of court for lack of evidence. (Since there wasn’t anything going on that they were made to write the tickets for!)
So far, Every action he has taken has been to benefit himself and not the citizens! His Crime fighting has been smoke and mirrors. All’s you have to do is listen to what he says and then check his own facts out on the city’s website. Major crime was NOT reduced in 2005! His leadership and teamwork created an environment in Flint that was even more conducive to crime! Proven by the First increase in crime in over ten years. And not just a little increase such as in 1997 when crime did go up .31 Yes only 3 tenths of a percent! But went up a dramatic 17 percent his first year and then another 12 percent his second an almost 30 percent increase in just two years under this clowns leadership!
I wish i could actually give him the credit for paving the streets with the funds that were predetermined to go for it anyway! but, he really didn't any influence on that. It was what was supposed to be done. Just as if your paid to go to work and put a piston on a crank. It's your job! It's what you punch in and do for a living. Just because he only takes a buck. Doesn't make it special because he does his job!
Then to sit here, and run down Ms. Poplar for ONE LOUSY SCREW UP. While not even doing it to benefit herself. Seems a bit self-righteous to me! Especially, when it comes to corruption! What she did didn’t even rate a so much as a ticket! She asked for 500 dollars each to go to a scholarship for kids. Not 189,000 dollars for the someone’s pocketbook (under the guise of looking out for the citizen’s money) when He and HIS OFFICE failed to appear in court to make claim on the money owed the city! If he was looking out for the citizens so much. Why wasn’t a legal representative at the bankruptcy hearing to state their claim. If you’ve ever been down there. You’ll note that Sears is at every hearing where someone owes them money. They get their money! It’s really that simple! So if the mayor didn’t want the money the legal way? Why does he want it an illegal way? Why don’t you apply your same logic to that case? You can’t tell me he is ignorant of the Law? Does the Mayor getting a 189,000 dollar payoff benefit the citizens or the people? But that doesn’t enrage you? Ms. Poplar pressuring liquor stores to give back to the community Does? I consider myself a honest person, I have Integrity and character. While I would not have done what she did. I sure can’t sit in my ivory palace and condemn her! It seems more logical based on the evidence to give her the benefit of the doubt! |
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Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:42 am |
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Dale
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| Why was her address blocked out? She is an elected official. I see peoples posts being deleted alot. now being blocked out. |
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Tue Dec 19, 2006 1:56 am |
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Josh Freeman
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quote:
Marcos schreef:
The City Council Has Investigative Power, so maybe your group can ask the Council this: They should look in to how she went about and see if her statements on Council (for example she told other members her plan) are true and if she really told them the whole story instead of just her and these business owners would fund such a thing.
Hey I'm all for investigative hearings. I always advocated while on Council for hearings... Two Council People can call a meeting..... Hill and Gonzales are free to do it since they have been the most vocal critics... but I'm not sure what the ultimate outcome would be or what would change... The US Attorney has failed to prosecute, they came up with some sort of "plea" deal (though there was no conviction in a Court). |
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Tue Dec 19, 2006 6:13 am |
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