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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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"In January 1962, the city paid $75,000 for a 5 & 1/2 acre parcel on Lake Huron through a confidential land agent. But just three months before, the same agent had been used to buy the same parcel for $42,000by Flnt businessman Samuel M. Catsman.
After a one-man grand jury probe in 1963, the agent, Claude O. Darby, paid $33,000 restitution-the difference between the price- and forfeited the agent's fee. The city sold the land in 1970."
Carlyon vowed to handle the selection of routes and acquisitions in a private confidential manner.
Carlyon also said the advisory committee would handle all details of plant expansion, pipeline construction, as well as purchasing the right-of-way on a new route and a parcel on Lake Huron for a pumping station.
Public officials gave a lack of cooperation from Detroit as being behind the push for a new pipeline.
Last edited by untanglingwebs on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:29 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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The main sticking point was the refusal of Detroit to provide a secondary water system in case the pipeline failed, although such a mechanism is required to be in place by the MDEQ. Flint could not afford the line by itself.
Carlyon detailed how Detroit has originally promised to build a backup from Pontiac. He said that Detroit changed the plan and wanted Flint to be the sole payer for the backup line. Detroit normally spread the cost for projects among all of their customers.
"Carlyon said rate increases to Flint customers helped pay or improvements to systems in Oakland County and elsewhere..
'But when they put a water line down Goddard Road (near Taylor) , we all pay for that", said Carlyon. :But when the time comes to solve Flint's problem, nobody else wants to pay"
"It appears to us that we paid an inordinate share for improvements that did not benefit Flint or Genesee County in any way." |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:44 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Flint's backup is the Flint water plant on N. Dort Highway.The city ust operate the pant 4 weeks a year to prove it works, but must dump all 420 million gallons into the river because Detroit refuses to allow their water to be blended with river water. Carlyon found the testing to be an unnecessary expense.
Detroit owns the water line between Imlay City and the Genesee county border. Flint owns the line from the county border to Flint.
Lapeer is the only other customer on the line between Imlay City and Flint. At Imlay City,another pipe goes south to serve northern oakland county and a smaller line continues to Flint. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:55 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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12-14-97 Flint journal, Tammy Webber, Stakes high in Decision on waterline; Money, control to be considered if ties to Detroit are severed.
Studies show that water costs could increase for 8 years and then drop below Detroit after 13 years. Detroit offered to buy the Flint water Treatment Plant,refurbish it and use it as a secondary water source from the Flint River.
Ken Hardin, Genesee County Drain Commissioner, stated that the area could control their own destiny.
"local communities stand to gain more tax revenue as new development is spurred by water lines . And Flint could compete with Detroit to sell water to other counties, including rapidly growing Lapeer and northern Oakland county, local officials said.."
Senator Joe Conroy, D-Flint told the Jornal that Detroit could eventually seethe area as competition as the new pipeline could conceivably go into Oakland County. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:02 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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The loss of Flint could have an impact on the rates of other customers of the Detroit water system. Projections are now that Detroit could lose $9 million-7% of their annual revenue as Flint/Genesee is the largest customer. Stephen Gorden, Detroit water supervisor, stated that other Detroit water customers would have to pay higher rates to cover the loss.
According to Gorden, "It would hurt the whole customer base. We would have to raise rates to get 7 percent back."
Was this the creation of confrontation with Detroit ?
"(Nothing has piqued) Detroit's territorialism and fears as this project has", said Craig Ruff, president of Public Sector Consultants, a Lansing firm selected by Flint and Genesee County to help inform the public about the issue. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:15 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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"Given the stakes of this issue, it would not surprise me to have a major amount of opposition by Detroit, generated here in Flint. This (project) is very high stakes in terms of the amount of money and cost structure for residential and industrial customers."
Some communities, like Lapeer were able to absorb the price hikes until three years ago when they had to pass the hikes in to the customers.
Detroit continued to believe they were the cheapest option. Gorden noted that Flint would have to treat their water at the Flint water plant and then pump it south or east. He bragged that Detroit treated their water on Lake Huron before sending it to customers. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:38 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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" Gorden said Detroit's five water plants are considered a backbone system and all users support the backbone. The utility's major pump station is in Detroit, but he said major work has been done at the Port huron Plant."...
"Gorden said, however, that Detroit is not required to provide a backup for Flint. he said there is not enough customer base to build a second line as a backup.' (Although Detroit offered to purchase and upgrade the Flint water plant at a cost of $24 million as a backup.)
"Detroit already serves most of Oakland County and Gorden said the village of oxford and Oakland Township are joining the system;their lines would be the first line of leg of another line toward Genesee County.
Gorden also said the Detroit water rate increases have averaged 5 % and they try to keep them within the cost of living. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 2:52 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Local officials noted that Detroit may have attempted to influence companies not to work on the Flint/Genesee project. They believe Detroit may have pressured the engineering firm of black and veatch to do a re-evaluation of their 1996 study for Genesee County that said a new pipeline was the best alternative. Black & Veatch also did work for Detroit and they sent an "unsolicited addendum to its earlier recommendation,saying new offers from Detroit were the most economical."
"Gorden said Black & Veatch provided the addendum without Detroit pressure because 'they wanted to get the report right'."Black & Veatch could not be reached for comment.
Hardin indicated that at least two law firms withdrew from consideration on the project because they performed work for Detroit.
Ruff stated his company received "gentle prodding from Detroit that it wouldn't be a good idea to work with Flint." |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:10 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Genesee County pays a 35% markup from Flint, who purchases water from Detroit. The county then serves all or part of 19 communities.
Fenton, Grand Blanc and the Beecher area all had separate municipal systems that draw from wells. "Residents in Linden, Argentine, Fenton Township and Atlas Township -and parts of most townships-have individual hoe owner wells."
These smaller communities feared rate hikes. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:20 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Genesee County pays a 35% markup from Flint, who purchases water from Detroit. The county then serves all or part of 19 communities.
Fenton, Grand Blanc and the Beecher area all had separate municipal systems that draw from wells. "Residents in Linden, Argentine, Fenton Township and Atlas Township -and parts of most townships-have individual hoe owner wells."
These smaller communities feared rate hikes. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:20 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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April 20, 1998 Flint Journal Ron Fonger, Detroit's latest plan gets tepid reception
"Flint and Genesee County officials continue to label as unacceptable a proposal that Detroit says is its best offer to date for winning a new water contract with the city."
" The proposal-one of four made by Detroit- calls for building a 96 inch wide pipeline south along I75 to a point of high ground. At that spot, Detroit would install a large volume storage system as a backup to the existing water line from Lake Huron."
"Detroit officials have said that the storage option would provide Flint with a relatively inexpensive backup water system while bringing public water to new areas in north Oakland and Genesee County." |
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Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:16 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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" The offer would lower what Flint pays for 1,000 cubic feet of water from $5.3 to $4.64. But Detroit would charge an additional $1.86 for building the storage backup system-a net increase of 11.5% over current rates."
Detroit officials continued to claim their plan would save over $240 million by 2025.
Local officials were appearing to reject the storage system plan. Flint City Administrator David Ready told Fonger that Mayor Woodrow Stanley believed the storage system plan to be the least acceptable. County Drain Commissioner, Ken Hardin said Detroit "must be dreaming" to think that proposal was acceptable.
Flint City Council President Scott Kincaid discussed how the proposal was favorable to Detroit and only provide Flint with a limited amount of water in case of an emergency. Calling the plan not feasible, Kincaid noted how it "was a huge cost for infrastructure that will only help Detroit." |
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Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:34 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Stephen F Gorden, Detroit's water supervisor, believed this was Flint's best option.
While Detroit offered to buy, upgrade and maintain the Flint water plant for $24 million, Flint was to pay $10 million of that cost. It was said the plant could be phased out if Detroit built a second water line to Flint.
Some of the plant's equipment dated back to 1948. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:41 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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9-25-1998, Flint Journal, Tom Gromak, Lapeer county looking at water project
Lapeer County commissioners and the lapeer County Water Authority met on two separate meetings to learn more about a Flint-Genesee proposal. Lapeer County officials are considering action due to rising Detroit water rates.
"I think it' something that all of the communities should be looking at. These people (at the Detroit Water and Sewerage Department ) are killing us down there, and they don't care," John Lyons Lapeer's director of public works, told the Greater Lapeer County Utilities Authority.
"The authority represents Lapeer county municipalities served by the Detroit water system, including Lapeer, Imlay City, Almont and Mayfield,Elba and Lapeer Townships." |
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Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:46 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Imlay City Manager James Creech, the new authority chairman, said negotiations with Detroit have been futile."
"Creech said the proposed Flint-genesee County pipeline was mentioned at one session."
"They just laughed at us because they never thought Flint would follow through." mostly due to the cost, Creech said.
"The cost is going to be one factor that determines whether Lapeer County joins Flint and genesee County or simply allows passage for the water line."
The outgoing chairman of the authority, Ken Ewing, didn't believe anyone could duplicate what Detroit has. |
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Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:56 pm |
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