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DEMCAD
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Hi, this is Reggie. I just want to comment on what Ted said about the Flint Police. He noted that Flint has about 270 officers for a city that is only 125,000 strong. He also commented that Flint has even officers for a city that is 200,000 strong. What he failed to mention was that Flint was a unique city in that we are the third most dangerous city in the country according to Morgan Quitno Press.
He also failed to mention that Flint is the poorest city in the state according to the United States Census Report. Flint's poverty has led to an increase in crime that forces the city to spend more on law enforcement than a typical city of the same size.
Basically, poverty increases economic crime, and economic crime forces the city government to spend more. That said, I agree with Ted's comments regarding the Flint jail. I definitely think that we need more jail space for the criminals.
Check out my sources.
Poverty Source:
http://abclocal.go.com/wjrt/story?section=local&id=4512367
Crime Ranking Source:
http://money.cnn.com/2006/10/30/real_estate/Most_dangerous_cities/indexhtm?postversion=2006103015 |
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Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:33 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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Look I don't have time to get into this. But you obviously didn't read anything else. Poverty DOES NOT cause crime! Unemployment Doesn't cause crime.
Not having any way to arrest criminals and driving the home instead of arresting them encourages crime.
Having police raid church parties instead of drug houses encourages crime.
Criminal activity causes poverty! Not Poverty causes criminal activity!
Once you've got a felony record it just become next to impossible to get a decent job!
In New York poverty was going up as high as 14 percent poverty there had jumped to a 12 percent level (Yes flint is much higher). However, Crime dropped 50 percent! HMMMm Do you think there was something else that caused the decrease? Think about it. You cannot continue to do nothing to criminals and expect that crime will go down. You cannot continue to give probation on top of probation for violating probation. Then think that is going to cause criminal activity to go down. |
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Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:54 am |
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DELETED
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Sat Nov 04, 2006 8:53 am |
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Adam
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Ted you're wrong about New York. Yes they were having economic issues when Republican Giuliani took over and they lost jobs for a little while until Giuliani's policies reversed that but Giuliani DID add more officers among many other things to help lead to crime reduction. In his book Leadership Giuliani seems to say that adding more officers was one of the keys to reducing crime. I'm going to have to go with Giuliani over you on this one. Another issue even if it's nonsensical because we don't have the jail space to put criminals in, some criminals could be deterred by an overwhelming police presence.
I also believe desperate situations can cause crime. look at New Orleans.
Another example is prostitution. Would a typical girl rather make 10/hour as a prostitute or work in a factory.
Anohter example is drug dealing. Most drug dealers in Flint would make more working full time at McDonald's. If you were a drug dealer would you rather make more money or less?
Technically though you are right. Poverty does not cause crime. Criminals cause crime but I do think poverty, lack of police, lack of a jail, lack of a police chief, lack of investigations etc. leads to more crime as criminals are free from punishment.
On another note. I know you're a busy guy and all that but if you have a minute or to please further explain how Giuliani was misguided about hiring more offficers. |
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Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:48 pm |
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Ted J
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I never once said he was misguided. Only every situation is different.
If Flint police officers have the time to stop and then take criminals home instead of putting them in Jail. It's seems reasonable to me that the only reason to add officers is so that moe officers are available to take criminals home instead of putting them in Jail!
Also, If we where able to lower crime with less officers already. PROVEN FACTS ALREADY ON RECORD! Under different leadership. It seems logical that when under this leadership the hiring of more officers and crime actually increasing (another fact already on record) the hiring of more officers isn't going to do a thing.
Especially when the extra officers hired are being used in attempts to bust church teen dances and private birthday parties being hosted in local clubs that are not even violating the law. Instead of breaking in the doors of drug houses. Or having officers responding to political threats of recall or chasing eric mayes away from polling places, when incidents still haven't been responded to by officers. Yet we need more police??? If we did, how can we all of a sudden need 12 officers at a housing commision meeting. Or when 40 officers are in attendance at a council meeting we need five in uniform to watch them? C'mon I know the poeple of FLint have more common sense than that.[/b] |
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Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:34 pm |
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DEMCAD
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"Poverty does not cause crime"...Are you serious? If I am poor, can not find a job with a livable wage, then of course, I'm going to rob and steal.
Come on Ted, when a city has little or no economic opportunities, crime is inevitable.
If you can not support yourself and your kids by legitimate means, you will be compelled to use illegitimate means. Basically, if you have two children that you have to feed, you can do two things...
1. Let your children starve
or
2. Do whatever it takes to feed your children. (this could include welfare, criminal activity, or whatever
Now, I'm now advocating or condoning criminal activity, but I understand how poverty and lack of opportunity to contribute to economic crime. |
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Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:18 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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OK, let's say that argument is true. So let's go to the sentencings listed in the Flint Journal on Monday. I haven't updated my page with those listing lately. so let just go to some of the ones I have recorded.
quote:
1. Let your children starve
or
2. Do whatever it takes to feed your children. (this could include welfare, criminal activity, or whatever
VARY, FREDERICK A., 29, of Mt. Morris; 3 years probation, complete drug court program for possession of less than 25 grams of a controlled substance, second or subsequent offense; sentence enhanced due to habitual offender fourth status; Aug. 23, Yuille.
TOPP, DEJUAN C., 28, of Flint; 46 days jail, probation continued each for probation violation of 2004 convictions of possession of less than 25 grams of a controlled substance and possession of marijuana; Aug. 25, Yuille.
TRIPLETT, WILLIE L., 57, of Flint; discharged from probation without improvement for probation violation of 2001 conviction of attempted felonious assault; Aug. 24, Hayman.
TUCKER, JACKIE W., 43, of Flint; 1 year, 5 months to 2 years, 6 months MDOC, pay unspecified restitution for attempted car theft; Aug. 24, Hayman.
VARY, FREDERICK A., 29, of Mt. Morris; 3 years probation, complete drug court program for possession of less than 25 grams of a controlled substance, second or subsequent offense; sentence enhanced due to habitual offender fourth status; Aug. 23, Yuille.
VILLAGOMEZ, TERRY J., 34, of Flint; 3 years probation, complete drug court program for breaking and entering a vehicle causing damages; sentence enhanced due to habitual offender fourth status; Aug. 23, Yuille.
VOHWINKLE, JOSHUA D., 24, of Flushing; complete drug court program, 2 years probation for breaking and entering with intent; probation continued, continue drug court program for probation violation of 2005 conviction of possession of non-narcotic controlled substance; Aug. 25, Yuille.
WHITSON, DEREK D., 26, of Flint; 90 days jail, 2 years probation, pay $1,133 restitution for attempted uttering and publishing and financial transaction device-retaining without consent; Aug. 23, Yuille.
WILSON, GEORGE J., 26, of Flint; 2-4 years MDOC, pay $4,453 restitution for probation violation of 2005 conviction of larceny from a building; Aug. 23, Yuille.
Which one of those crimes was to feed their children or family? Two of those possibly could be. But unlikely. Even if those two were crimes to get money for food. They now have to pay restitution.
So I no have to ask? How does committing crime help pay the bills or put food on the table? Criminals cause crime. Plain and simple. They have no regard or respect for others. They do it because they think its easier than earning it.
Besides, Most crime esp in Flint is drug related. How do these criminals get the money to buy drugs... yet don't seem to be able to pay their bills, put food on the table, hold a steady job? They steal it! Prostitute their bodies, steal car stereos, etc.
So now let me ask these next few questions.
How many car stereos that have been stolen out of cars in Flint do you think the money from fencing it went to pay bills or pay for food.
How many cars stolen that have ended up in the impound where stolen and the damage done to the car resulted in the thief making money to buy food or pay bills?
When My neighbors house was broken into. The guns that were stolen were later used in a Rape? How did that put food on someone’s table or pay their bills?
It just doesn't even make sense that poverty causes crime. And the reason those in poverty rob and steal is to buy food or pay bills. It just doesn't happen that way! It may sound good or even create a knee jerk reaction. But, has no substance.
So I don't understand? |
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Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:17 am |
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Biggie9
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quote:
Ted Jankowski OK, let's say that argument is true. So let's go to the sentencings listed in the Flint Journal on Monday. I haven't updated my page with those listing lately. so let just go to some of the ones I have recorded.
quote:
1. Let your children starve
or
2. Do whatever it takes to feed your children. (this could include welfare, criminal activity, or whatever
Ted, you are right, none of these guys are Jean Valjeans stealing bread to feed starving kids.
They're selling drugs to buy gold caps/diamond studs for their teeth, firearms, spinner rims, stereo systems, big screen plasma TVs etc.
Its crap argument that poor people have to hi-jack your car so they can drive to the Sav-a-Lot to get formula, diapers and bread.
sheesh..... |
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Sun Nov 05, 2006 2:56 pm |
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luke sabucco
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i was in gander mountain a few weeks ago at the gun counter. there were 4 guys, all thugged up. 1 was like 22 the rest were minors. the oldest one was buying under his name for the rest to carry. the youngest one was around 12-13 and the man at the counter was showing him how easy it would be to tear down that even a child could do it.. i actually got sick to my stomache.. last time i went there
apparently this way of life is accepted here. buying a handgun for a 13 year old, wtf is wrong with people |
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Sun Nov 05, 2006 5:18 pm |
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what ever
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well i live in flint near fenton and 12th st i have a know crack house have had to call the cops 4 times in 2 months once a crack whore ran in my house had her at gun point cops came 3 hours later was on the scaner had i car pulled over on grand travis and 12th for a minor stop but could'nt come over here when i had someone run in my house i had at gun point
that was trying to get away from some mans wallet she stole
then when some girl is getting beat the hell out of her by her boyfriend in the street get told where to busy to come out right now turn on scanner to find out yes they where busy doing seat belt sting
3 time a man try to car jack my hot rod i had from 16 years old trying to take this car from me is almost as bad as putting your hands on kids or wife pulled a gun on the man called the cops cant come out you have it under cotrol well i did'nt let them know i had the gun but the man that try to take the car got the butt of the gun when the cops just made it that much worst for the man come on if you dont live here you will never under stand cops here are no help and the funny part of this i dont live anywhere close to where its real bad so please if someone can do something about this towns cop problem please help with it |
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Sun Nov 05, 2006 8:30 pm |
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luke sabucco
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thats why all of the average joes who see this need to step up for office, lets put on our game face, shave and get some khakis. sell off some of our cars and toys and take the damn city back. if we had a council full of normal people and a semi logical mayor we could take flint back over....
and to the last guys post, over this summer i had some random guy pull a gun on me when i had alot of family here for a bbq, called the cops and they never came. waited for hours, called back and they said it was due to shift change... a 5 hour shift change? |
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Sun Nov 05, 2006 9:07 pm |
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Ted Jankowski
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quote:
Ted, you are right, none of these guys are Jean Valjeans stealing bread to feed starving kids.
They're selling drugs to buy gold caps/diamond studs for their teeth, firearms, spinner rims, stereo systems, big screen plasma TVs etc.
Its crap argument that poor people have to hi-jack your car so they can drive to the Sav-a-Lot to get formula, diapers and bread.
sheesh.....
I like analogy. You can IM me at Javert132 on AOLIM.
Here's the thing. I know of many places in Flint where people can go to get clothes, get food. I've seen people in New Cadillacs, and Buicks, and Chevy's waiting outside some of these places giving out food.
You can get food and clothes if you really need them in this City!
And I don't know of a church anywhere in this City that wouldn't help someone that came up to them.
Making excuses for peoples bad behavior. Ie Poverty causes crime or Unemployment causes crime keeps the real issues and problems out of the solutions. It doesn't allow the dialogue necessary to even discuss the solutions as long as we can blame an intangible and no one has to take responsibility for a solution or their actions. |
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Sun Nov 05, 2006 10:44 pm |
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DEMCAD
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"Criminals cause crime. Plain and simple. "
Ted Jankowski
Ted, you're right, criminals do cause crime, but the real question is...What causes criminals to become criminals? How are ordinary people driven to do such desperate things?
Personally, I think the answer is more complex than what Ted argues. I believe criminality is cause by a number of things.
1. Economic Environment (Poverty and Lack of Opportunity)
This contributes to a lot of economic crime.
2. Social Environment (this includes upbring, cultural values, ethics, principles, and ideology)
3. Psychological Condition (i.e. sociopaths and psychopaths)
4. Drug Abuse (alcoholic and drug-related problems)
5. Law Enforcement Tactics (Effective policing tactics and incapacitation)
In short, I'm not trying to downplay the importance of effective police tactics, I'm just stating that criminality is complex and caused by a number of factors including poverty.
If there's one thing that I've learned about crime, it's that criminality is anything but simple. |
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Sun Nov 05, 2006 11:37 pm |
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pissedoffmamabear
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| who the hell really cares what causes a thug piece of crap criminal to be a criminal,,,,just put thier lousy asses in jail, build bigger jails, give them a new home,,,,lets start worrying about protecting those that are law abiding before the law abiding have to become vigilantys,,,,lets put them away with bubba, and let them be someones ..,,,,,that is my idea of justice,,,then I can walk the city streets again, safe,,,better yet,,,lets put a electric fence aroung the State of KANSAS,,,,whats that state good for anyway,,,,tornados,,,,so lets house all the criminals in the U.S, In Kansas, we can give them all guns,,,and knives,,,and let them kill each other, and no food of course , they would have to eat each other,,,,,damn, am I good or what,,,this is a great idea,,,,I will even sign my name,,,,,,Debbie McIntosh |
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 12:54 am |
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Ted Jankowski
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Debbie Just create an online name that you log in under. We will always know that it is really you posting and not someone else perpetrating.
Now the reason anyone cares is because for a long term solution to crime. We really do need to know why? So that it can be prevented before it happens.
quote:
1. Economic Environment (Poverty and Lack of Opportunity)
This contributes to a lot of economic crime.
Not even close to a reasonable explanation. The amazing thing is all the evidence available that shows that Crime can cause poverty and unemployment. And the severe lack of evidence that poverty or unemployment changes the nature of a person that makes them turn to criminal activity. While every now and then it seems that there may be a half percent of crime that could possibly be attributed to this. It's not a big enough factor to even mention. Let alone get the publicity it receives. The biggest thing I don't understand as to why people still say this stuff is from the Great depression. Why then during the Great Depression did Crime remain relatively FLAT? Seems to me that with all those poeple living in poverty and living without employment. That under this thesis crime should have four times higher. And if you look at it under the Flint model possibly 50 times higher.
quote:
2. Social Environment (this includes upbringing, cultural values, ethics, principles, and ideology)
One of the more actually debatable issues or influences. Take some of the natives in South America that practice/d 9rumor still claim its going on) that they still practice cannibalism. It's obviously a crime. They are murdering people. but because of their culture they see nothing wrong with it. Then there are the reports of violence against women in the Sudan and Iraq and Iran. Where woman are stoned or mutilated because they don't follow the decisions of their fathers or husbands. We consider that a crime in the US and if they attempt that stuff here they will be brought up on charges and prosecuted. Over there they are celebrated!
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4. Drug Abuse (alcoholic and drug-related problems)
Another good and debatable conclusion. Considering most of the crimes revolve around drugs or drug addictions. It seems reasonable that this is a definite contributing factor.
quote:
5. Law Enforcement Tactics (Effective policing tactics and incapacitation)
This has definitely been proven effective. Systems such as COMPSTAT and crime mapping have been used and are currently being used to dramatically reduce rates rates in cities across the US and some even in Michigan.
Poverty is more a result of criminal activity rather than a cause of criminal activity. Lack of education (not necessarily schooling) has more of an impact than poverty. Flint has whole generations of criminals that were taught this as a way of Life. Because the system refuses to hold them accountable for their actions. This has been passed on generations.
The real problem is the heart of Man. Goverment tells us we are nothing but evolved animals than attempts to force a law based on God. Then expects people not to live by the Law of the Jungle. Might makes right! If we are just an evolved animal why is anything right or wrong? In nature only the strong survive. Tell people life doesn't mean anything and then expect them to respect other peoples lives is ludicris. Yet we still continue to try. Why does it surprise people that when government tells people they are evolved from animals that they don't act like them?
See my show today airing during Eric Mays time slot. Paul is airing at that time because it didn't get aired this weekend as it was supposed to. this will be the only time I appear in his slot. Since he hasn't created a show in a few weeks. Hopefully he will be returning soon. I've tried contacting him but he is incognito at the moment. |
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Mon Nov 06, 2006 1:34 am |
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