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Domet
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Hahaha, oh twotap - I was hoping you would resort to these sad arguments which are all easily overwritten with actual evidence.
Before I go into that, however, I wanted to address something real quick with Pissed:
Radical Republicans in Congress at the time did a lot to make the South an angry, repressed area and basically used freed blacks to win some political campaigns. Beyond that, the purpose of the civil war as postulated by Lincoln was not to end slavery but rather to bring the Union back together. The Emancipation Declaration does little to actually free or give rights to southern blacks. Beyond that - if you want to make historical connections in some way to justify the present day actions - who started slavery to begin with? White people, right? Well, they must be the devil! For the record, I do not believe that - I am only highlighting the general falsehood of connecting historical fact to present day actions - they are unrelated, and one action in the past does not justify present action today.
Now, onto pointing out why twotap should read his articles before making them into copypasta and should probably actually research the material before thinking he's making good points. What fun.
As to your first article - did you actually read the RealClimate link I provided? As I said previously - putting those bits in context and understanding what they are referring to is more important than being a sensationalist trying to win an ideological point. Further, this group of scientists may have influenced world wide alarm - they did not influence independently found data that everybody else has produced. Thus, even if they were involved in some ridiculous conspiracy, there impact within the scientific community is minimal with regards to their specific research. Overturning their work does not make everybody else's work wrong - you have yet to address that point.
Any issues with the hacked data are quite explained by RealClimate, in ways that actually make sense. They aren't excuses, they are actual explorations of the data, the work and what was being talked about in those messages. Inform yourself, take some time to actually read it.
As to the last issue in your second article - hockey stick graphs. First - there were very specific "hockey stick" graphs which were shown to have
flaws
- the best thing about this is that, even when those methodological flaws were corrected
(and they were)
we saw that the actual changes to the graphs were incredibly minute, and still overall showed very similar results to what the original data showed.
Further, with regards to that specific data set - again who cares? Independent researchers in science are shown to have methodological flaws all the time, it does not make the other
various
research
wrong. When data can be reproduced independently, it is thus independently verifiable and quite credible.
Finally on the hockey sticks - who cares? Data about current global warming trends were merely backed up by those graphs, not proven. The actual story is in climate change modeling which has shown that the rapid rise of CO2 in the last 100 years is more responsible for warming than any natural phenomenon. Investigations into 20th century warming was done through detection and attribution studies whereby researchers analyzed many different environmental factors and tested them to see what was causing what.
All of these problems boil down to a couple of simple things here - you lack an actual understanding of thee science here, you have done little looking into the incredible body of research available on the topic and you don't understand what creates "false" or "true" in scientific research. All of this is evidenced in your constant attempts to generalize from small samples, to attack the topic on matters that in the end don't actually matter for much and your pursuit of an ideological mission over logical and factual data. |
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Lack of support for your assertions does not make you a sage, it just makes the rest of us doubt your reasoning skills. - Elias12, Flint Talk Poster |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 11:47 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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I see our community activist must be home today. No Acorn assignments come in. 
Heres little acorns quote of the day.
"basically used freed blacks to win some political campaigns"
Of course as everyone knows his party has been doing that for the last 40 years or so. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 12:05 pm |
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back again
F L I N T O I D
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| domet, you know better. neither one of these kats have ever, nor will they ever READ anything NON-PARTISAN.. your attempting to teach potato sacks. |
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even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y. |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:40 pm |
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Domet
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
twotap schreef:
Heres little acorns quote of the day.
"basically used freed blacks to win some political campaigns"
Ah yes - taking points out of context to serve your personal agenda. I wasn't making an emotive point attempting to label republicans as bad people - something you clearly did not get. I was simply pointing out that going back into the past as a rationalization for the "goodness" of any one party or idea is kind of silly. The past leads to the future, it does not rationalize it. Logic in this instance is separate from historical context. Thank you for again illustrating my point that you can't read or comprehend relatively simple language.
Again - my party. Ha - at least I have ideas that vary from conservative to liberal. I do lean liberal, but I have never associated as a democrat. Your ideas purely come from a single paradigm, you lack perspective and have no idea what you are talking about. Take your most recent post for example - again, you have no arguments or points that can override the researched and factual statements I have made, thus you attack me for it. It's a tactic employed by the ignorant in an attempt to hide their ignorance.
As I said above - you discredit yourself, I point it out and that makes you angry. I'm okay with that - you can keep attacking me and whatnot, it will never make your points correct and you will continue to be the ignorant, irrelevant individual accomplishing nothing but poisoning the lives of those around him with the few years he has left. That's the saddest part of your life, twotap - you have lived this long life, and it has culminated in your bitterness and your ignorance towards people who aren't you. It is unfortunate to see what bigotry and ignorance can do to an otherwise usable human mind.
And BA - I know. It's a sad fact, I have a hard time accepting ignorance where I see it. It is difficult for me to just let ignorance go - I try to have faith that every person is capable of seeing past their own limited views. In that sense I am perhaps naive, but it is this hope that allows me to not give up on humanity in general. Just specific people such as twotap. In the meantime, the least I can do is correct is factual errors so that other people reading the thread will understand that his view is purely ideological and not based in objective, observable facts. Ignorance should be confronted wherever it rears its ugly head. If you can't save the person suffering from it, at the very least you may be able to help the onlookers. |
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Lack of support for your assertions does not make you a sage, it just makes the rest of us doubt your reasoning skills. - Elias12, Flint Talk Poster |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:55 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| BlahBlahBlah damn you gotta be a female. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:00 pm |
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Domet
F L I N T O I D
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Ohhhhhhh and twotap knocks it out of the park with a hyper-hetero attack on my masculinity! Man - remember what I said before about you being in the closet? Every homosexual attack just builds up to that position being more accurate.
Chest beat more - it makes your points oh so much more accurate.
Blah blah blah - you must be ignorant. |
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Lack of support for your assertions does not make you a sage, it just makes the rest of us doubt your reasoning skills. - Elias12, Flint Talk Poster |
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Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:06 pm |
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twotap
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Jeez this guy has to have a sitdown with some real experts like Little acorn and Backagain to set him straight. Just who the hell does he think he is.
UK NEWSCLIMATE CHANGE 'FRAUD'
Wednesday December 2,2009
By John Ingham Have your say(23)
THE scientific consensus that mankind has caused climate change was rocked yesterday as a leading academic called it a “load of hot air underpinned by fraud”.
Professor Ian Plimer condemned the climate change lobby as “climate comrades” keeping the “gravy train” going.
In a controversial talk just days before the start of a climate summit attended by world leaders in Copenhagen, Prof Plimer said Governments were treating the public like “fools” and using climate change to increase taxes.
He said carbon dioxide has had no impact on temperature and that recent warming was part of the natural cycle of climate stretching over billions of years.
If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid.
Professor Pilmer
Prof Plimer told a London audience: “Climates always change. They always have and they always will. They are driven by a number of factors that are random and cyclical.”
His comments came days after a scandal in climate-change research emerged through the leak of emails from the world-leading research unit at the University of East Anglia. They appeared to show that scientists had been massaging data to prove that global warming was taking place
The Climate Research Unit also admitted getting rid of much of its raw climate data, which means other scientists cannot check the subsequent research. Last night the head of the CRU, Professor Phil Jones, said he would stand down while an independent review took place.
SEARCH UK NEWS for:
Professor Plimer said climate change was caused by natural events such as volcanic eruptions, the shifting of the Earth’s orbit and cosmic radiation. He said: “Carbon dioxide levels have been up to 1,000 times higher in the past. CO2 cannot be driving global warming now.
“In the past we have had rapid and significant climate change with temperature changes greater than anything we are measuring today. They are driven by processes that have been going on since the beginning of time.”
He cited periods of warming during the Roman Empire and in the Middle Ages – when Vikings grew crops on Greenland – and cooler phases such as the Dark Ages and the Little Ice Age from 1300 to 1850.
And he predicted that the next phase would cool the planet.
Climate change is widely blamed on the burning of fossil fuels which release greenhouse gases such as CO2 into the atmosphere, where they trap the sun’s heat.
The talks at Copenhagen are expected to find ways to reduce greenhouse gas emissions globally.
But Professor Plimer, of Adelaide and Melbourne Universities, said that to stop climate change Governments should find ways to prevent changes to the Earth’s orbit and ocean currents and avoid explosions of supernovae in space. Of the saga of the leaked emails, he said: “If you have to argue your science by using fraud, your science is not valid.”
The CRU’s Professor Jones has admitted some of the emails may have had “poorly chosen words” and were sent in the “heat of the moment”. But he has categorically denied manipulating data and said he stood by the science. And yesterday he dismissed suggestions of a conspiracy to alter evidence to support a theory of man-made global warming as “complete rubbish”.
But mining geology professor Plimer said there was a huge momentum behind the climate-change lobby.
He suggested many scientists had a vested interest in promoting climate change because it helped secure more funding for research. He said: “The climate comrades are trying to keep the gravy train going. Governments are also keen on putting their hands as deep as possible into our pockets.
TA DA there it is in a nutshell 
“The average person has been talked down to. He has been treated like a fool. Yet the average person has common sense.”
But Vicky Pope, head of Met Office Climate Change Advice, said: “We are seeing changes in climate on a timescale we have not seen before.
“There clearly are natural variations. But the only way we can explain these trends is when we include both man-made and natural changes to the climate.
“We have also seen declines in summer sea ice over the past 30 years, glaciers retreating for 150 years, changing rainfall patterns and increases in subsurface and surface ocean temperatures.”
And as the war of words between the rival camps intensified, leading economist Lord Stern dismissed the sceptics as “muddled”.
Lord Stern, who produced a detailed report on the issue for the Government, said evidence of climate change was “overwhelming”. He accepted that all views should be heard but said the degree of scepticism among “real scientists” was very small.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
James Delingpole is a writer, journalist and broadcaster who is right about everything. He is the author of numerous fantastically entertaining books including Welcome To Obamaland: I've Seen Your Future And It Doesn't Work, How To Be Right, and the Coward series of WWII adventure novels. His website is www.jamesdelingpole.com Climategate: it's all unravelling now
By James Delingpole Politics Last updated: December 2nd, 2009
So many new developments: which story do we pick? Maybe best to summarise, instead. After all, it’s not like you’re going to find much of this reported in the MSM.
1. Australia’s Senate rejects Emissions Trading Scheme for a second time. Or: so turkeys don’t vote Christmas. Expect to see a lot more of this: politicians starting to become aware their party’s position on AGW is completely out of kilter with the public mood and economic reality. Kevin Rudd’s Emissions Trading Scheme – what Andrew Bolt calls “a $114 billion green tax on everything” – would have wreaked havoc on the coal-dependent Australian economy. That’s why several opposition Liberal frontbenchers resigned rather than vote with the Government on ETS; why Liberal leader Malcolm Turnbull lost his job; and why the Senate voted down the ETS.
2. Danes caught fiddling their carbon credits. (Hat tip: Philip Stott) Carbon trading is the Emperor’s New Clothes of international finance. It was invented by none other than Ken Lay, whose Enron would currently be one of the prime beneficiaries in the global alternative energy market, if it hadn’t been shown to be (nearly) as fraudulent as the current AGW scam. It is a licence to fleece, cheat and rob. Still, jolly embarrassing for the Danes to get caught red handed, what with their hosting a conference shortly in which the world’s leaders will try, straight-faced, to persuade us that carbon emissions trading is the only viable way of defeating ManBearPig.
3. Hats off to The Daily Express – the first British newspaper to make the AGW scam its front page story.
The piece was inspired by another bravura performance by Professor Ian Plimer, the Aussie geologist who argues that climate change has been going on quite naturally, oblivious of human activity, for the last 4,567 million years.
4. BBC finally gets round to reporting – sort of
– that Climatic Research Unit at University of East Anglia may have been up to no good. It’s true that this report on their website is so hedged with special pleading for the temporarily suspended director Phil Jones the man might have written it himself. But on the
BBC Radio 4 Today programme this morning, I did hear the newsreader reporting it as more than just a routine theft story.
Which is a start.
5. Legal actions ahoy! Over the next few weeks, one thing we can be absolutely certain of is concerted efforts by the rich, powerful and influential AGW lobby to squash the Climategate story. We’ve seen this already in the “nothing to see here” response of Dr Rajendra Pachauri, the jet-setting, troll-impersonating railway engineer who runs the IPCC and wants to stop ice being served with water in restaurants. This is why those of us who oppose his scheme to carbon-tax the global economy back to the dark ages must do everything in our power to bring the scandal to a wider audience. One way to do this is law suits.
At Ian Plimer’s lunch talk yesterday, Viscount Monckton talked of at least two in the offing – both by scientists, one British, one Canadian, who intend to pursue the CRU for criminal fraud. Their case, quite simply, is that the scientists implicated in Climategate have gained funding and career advancement by twisting data, hiding evidence, and shutting out dissenters by corrupting the peer-review process. More news on this, as I hear it.
Lord Monckton has written an indispensible summary of the Climategate revelations so far.
6. Watch out Green Dave! The Independent reports on the growing backlash within the party to Cameron’s libtard-wooing greenery. Turning to the Independent for a balanced report on environmental matters is a bit like consulting Der Sturmer for a sensible, insightful view on the Jewish question. Still, for once, the house journal of eco-loonery seems to have got it right and the point made by Tory backbencher David Davis is well made:
“The ferocious determination to impose hair-shirt policies on the public – taxes on holiday flights, or covering our beautiful countryside with wind turbines that look like props from War of the Worlds – is bound to cause a reaction in |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Wed Dec 02, 2009 9:11 am |
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Domet
F L I N T O I D
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Eh, more of the same.
I have already debunked your claims about the UAE and "fraudulent" data. You can do the reading yourself or continue to believe your opinion is stronger than facts, whichever works best for you.
A few items items you mentioned with your "credible" scientist.
First - consensus does not define correct or wrong in the scientific community, research does. Using "consensus" and then calling all the scientists communists doesn't actually disprove global warming models.
Second - if Plimer is going to claim that CO2 from human output has no effect on climate change, he is already discredited. Since 1859 we have known that CO2 absorbs infrared radiation. Some years later.. 1996 maybe? Svante Arrhenius calculated that CO2 could account for a 6 degree temperature rise if levels present then were doubled, a calculation shown to be true by modern climate change scientists using much more complicated algorithms. Scientists have
tested
and
can prove
that human effects on the atmosphere through CO2 emissions, deforestation and other acts are contributing incredibly to a non-cyclic increase in temperatures.
Citing one scientist which fits your ideological position doesn't make you correct. I would love to see his research.
As to your "vested interest" argument - to be honest, that is one that I would believe... if it were true. According to the
US Accountability Office
and
Analysis of Outyear Projections for R & D
- though spending on global warming initiatives have increased, spending on scientific research has seen a 36% decline... meaning that scientists are not getting even as much money as they used to.
Try again.
And I will say this again, because I think it is important - emotive reactions from the public over what amount to irrelevant charges does not prove anything other than people are angry over nothing, which happens more often than it should. |
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Lack of support for your assertions does not make you a sage, it just makes the rest of us doubt your reasoning skills. - Elias12, Flint Talk Poster |
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Wed Dec 02, 2009 3:32 pm |
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twotap
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Good old little acorn our local climentologist expert (along with everything else of course) hey acorn where did you get all those degrees.  This just gets better as it goes along. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Wed Dec 02, 2009 6:43 pm |
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Domet
F L I N T O I D
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| In the world of argument, credentials are meaningless and in fact a logical fallacy. I have presented you with factual evidence, written by credentialed persons, which blow your arguments away. You can laugh and pretend like you have a point, but as usual your comments are hollow, without argument and continue to fail your burden of proof. |
_________________
Lack of support for your assertions does not make you a sage, it just makes the rest of us doubt your reasoning skills. - Elias12, Flint Talk Poster |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 3:20 pm |
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FStar
F L I N T O I D
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I'm back. And boy how I missed the intellectual debate. Wow, I can't believe that twotap and his fan club have actually gotten dumber. Not possible I thought when I decided to take a break from the forum. I was reduced to insulting two tap's mother because like Domet, I realized that reasoned arguments don't work with him, since he hasn't got a brain. He basically has a glenn beck sound bite stuck in his head and he can't replace it with any thought.
But, while I was gone, I had a great time very two tap's mom up the ass! |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 4:55 pm |
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back again
F L I N T O I D
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oh jeees!!!!!!!....................................backing slowly out the room..  |
_________________
even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y. |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:00 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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Yup hes back, how they hangin loser??
Last edited by twotap on Fri Dec 04, 2009 8:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:59 pm |
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back again
F L I N T O I D
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| oh lorrrrrd. |
_________________
even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y. |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:20 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| Hey backagain typical liberal tactics when they are losing. Nothing new here. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Thu Dec 03, 2009 9:04 pm |
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