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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
I've been to gun shows where a few people sold anything to anybody, no questions asked. they don't care what happens to the gun as long as they make a quick buck. The rest of the dealers are afraid to call them out, for fear of being called traitors or liberals.
Are you saying they ignored the federal laws that apply to all firearm sales even at gun shows?? By the way the so called gun show loophole that the antis are always harping about is a myth created by them. Kryskatten I cant imagine why you would not be happy with Barack the most liberal socialist agenda prez candidate in history. If your not happy with him you are never gonna be happy.
quote:
never get a gun control bill through Congress.
Maybe not now but you get enough of a leftist majority in congress and Baracko gets to appoint one or two Ginsberg type supreme court justices and the threat becomes very real. Hes a threat and every thinking second amendment advocate knows it. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Sat Sep 13, 2008 8:36 pm |
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Marko Rollo
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
twotap schreef:
Are you saying they ignored the federal laws that apply to all firearm sales even at gun shows?? By the way the so called gun show loophole that the antis are always harping about is a myth created by them.
According to the 1997 Survey of State Prison Inmates, among those possessing a gun, the source of the gun was from -
* a flea market or gun show for fewer than 2%
* a retail store or pawnshop for about 12%
* family, friends, a street buy, or an illegal source for 80%
Given that 3 million new guns are sold each year, even 1-2% purchased at a gun show is too many. But I agree, closing the loophole is not the answer.
A bigger problem is illegal sales at gun/pawn shops. 1% of the shops in the US account for 57% of illegal guns purchased from gun/pawn shops (DOJ figures). But these shops don't get closed down. Why? NRA lobbying has resulted in the ATF budget for simple enforcement to be gutted. Congress is afraid of the NRA.
Yes, over 80% of guns used in crimes are bought and sold on the street, and for that reason I believe we should have concealed carry. We can agree on that.
I own guns. I like guns. But like many big money lobbies, the NRA has become so strident they won't even police their
own members.
Gun owners think it's their god-given right to do whatever they want with their guns, the government be damned. If you tell me I'm lying, I'll conclude you've never been to a gun show.
When the MPAA (motion picture association), doctors, and lawyers were under threat of federal regulation, they compromised and policed their own members. It's time for the NRA to step up or face public backlash. |
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Sat Sep 13, 2008 10:46 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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I have been to gun shows all in MI. Once again have you ever witnessed a handgun being sold with out the required background check on the buyer being done? As far as these felons buying at a gun show that's very possible if they made the purchase before they actually had a felony on their record. If an individual has a handgun for sale in Mi the buyer must have either a purchase permit or if he or she has a CPL they must complete form R160.
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1645_3500_4615---,00.html
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_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:30 am |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Marko Rollo schreef:
Gun owners think it's their god-given right to do whatever they want with their guns, the government be damned. If you tell me I'm lying, I'll conclude you've never been to a gun show.
It appears to me the NRA has bent over and agreed they are willing to take the anti-constitutional government's position that American citizens do not have an absolute right to bear arms.
I support an absolute interpretation of the second ammendment. Having to get permission form your master (government) is not a right. It's more of a license. |
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Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:25 am |
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Opprimo
F L I N T O I D
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Just to be clear: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "GUN SHOW LOOPHOLE"
The fact is, what they want to do away with, is private sales between one citizen and another.
The only gun sales at a gun show that do NOT go through the NICS check are ones where I walk in and sell my gun to another person who happens to be there. This same transaction can take place on my front porch, or the local police station parking lot.
The "Gun Show Loophole" is a liberal buzzword used to scare uneducated masses into thinking that there is zero checks done at gun shows and gangbangers by the dozen show up and buy their 'gats' at legal, over the counter, prices. I guarantee there isn't a single gangbanger out there who paid $450 for their Glock.
The fact is, it is absolutely insane for anyone to say when, where, and how, a law abiding citizen of the United States can defend his own life; Period. |
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All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
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Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:06 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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I am wondering how you know this guy is indeed an NRA member?
That would be like me saying that these folks are Democrats and Baracko supporters which of course they are. 
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_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Mon Sep 15, 2008 7:50 am |
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Marko Rollo
F L I N T O I D
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Let's see...I support the second amendment, am a gun owner, disagree with the "loophole" argument, disagree with the semi-auto ban, and support concealed carry.
But when I argue that the NRA has a PR problem they could solve themselves by self-policing members who break the rules, I get thrown under the bus.
When you start thinking the moderates on your own side are the enemy, you sew the seeds of your own demise. |
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Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:13 pm |
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Opprimo
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Marko Rollo schreef:
Let's see...I support the second amendment, am a gun owner, disagree with the "loophole" argument, disagree with the semi-auto ban, and support concealed carry.
But when I argue that the NRA has a PR problem they could solve themselves by self-policing members who break the rules, I get thrown under the bus.
When you start thinking the moderates on your own side are the enemy, you sew the seeds of your own demise.
I wasn't throwing you under the bus for saying the NRA has a PR problem, I was stating that the 'loophole' is a falsehood manufactured by Antis. If you are indeed against the ability to privately sell your firearm to another law abiding citizen without bringing the Michigan and Federal government into the transaction, then just say that. Otherwise, I was simply trying to inform. |
_________________
All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent.
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Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:34 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| I am in the process of transferring ownership of a handgun to a fellow in TX. If all you loophole claimers have never done that let me assure you their is no loophole and transferring is not cheap. $25 ffl fee on my end $25 ffl fee on his plus added shipping costs. Hey Marko give us some examples of known NRA members breaking the rules. Im sure their may be some but you seem to have actual knowledge. As far as the NRA improving their image amongst the media or liberals (democrats) or Hollywood or whom ever the only way they could do that would be to give in to the anti gun bias that exists in all those areas |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Mon Sep 15, 2008 1:05 pm |
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Marko Rollo
F L I N T O I D
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I'm beginning to see the fundamental disconnect here.
Your position is that no government entity has the right to get involved in the sale of a gun between non-criminal adults. I tend to agree. In a hypothetical world, if their were no gun violence, their should be no gun laws.
My position is that any gun control legislation is based on our society's frustration in attempting to control gun violence in our cities.
Fear mongering aside, neither party wants to take away your guns. Claiming the Democrats want your legal guns sells NRA memberships - nothing more.
So let's approach this argument another way: do you see anything the government can do to curb gun violence? |
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Mon Sep 15, 2008 3:26 pm |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
neither party wants to take away your guns.
your joking right??? Check your boys record as well as the past statements and attempted legislation by the members of the Dem party and maybe you'll get a clue. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Mon Sep 15, 2008 5:20 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Marko Rollo schreef:
I'm beginning to see the fundamental disconnect here.
Your position is that no government entity has the right to get involved in the sale of a gun between non-criminal adults. I tend to agree. In a hypothetical world, if their were no gun violence, their should be no gun laws.
My position is that any gun control legislation is based on our society's frustration in attempting to control gun violence in our cities.
Fear mongering aside, neither party wants to take away your guns. Claiming the Democrats want your legal guns sells NRA memberships - nothing more.
So let's approach this argument another way: do you see anything the government can do to curb gun violence?
In a hypothetical world more law abiding citizens would be armed and ready to defend themselves if it wasn't for government restrictions and "involvement".
My position is more law abiding citizens should be armed and ready to fire if necessary.
The majority of congress already favors limiting the right to bear arms.
The government could eliminate the prosecution of law abiding citizens who defend themselves. Michigan recently made a step in the right direction by making it legal to defend yourself in your home instead of being legally required to flee out of your own home first if possible. |
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Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:30 am |
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twotap
F L I N T O I D
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| Actually they made it legal to defend yourself anywhere you have a legal right to be not just in your home. |
_________________
"If you like your current healthcare you can keep it, Period"!!
Barack Hussein Obama--- multiple times. |
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Tue Sep 16, 2008 12:41 pm |
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Marko Rollo
F L I N T O I D
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I've read lots of statements by Dems over the years about guns, and never heard one claim they want to take away your guns. Feel free to find me one that isn't a whacko.
Attempts at gun regulation are a response to gun violence, not a nefarious plot to disarm America as the NRA would have you believe.
Tell you what.
here's the youtube video
that convinced me the Dems are wrong on the semi-auto ban. Feel free to share this with your liberal friends. I do.
quote:
twotap schreef:
quote:
neither party wants to take away your guns.
your joking right??? Check your boys record as well as the past statements and attempted legislation by the members of the Dem party and maybe you'll get a clue.
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Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:18 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Marko Rollo schreef:
I've read lots of statements by Dems over the years about guns, and never heard one claim they want to take away your guns. Feel free to find me one that isn't a whacko.
Attempts at gun regulation are a response to gun violence, not a nefarious plot to disarm America as the NRA would have you believe.
Tell you what.
here's the youtube video
that convinced me the Dems are wrong on the semi-auto ban. Feel free to share this with your liberal friends. I do.
So you think the dems only want to take away semi-autos?
Aren't those guns?
How many dems since I think Mondale have claimed they are going to raise your taxes yet still raise taxes? |
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Tue Sep 16, 2008 8:25 pm |
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