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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Brian Warner schreef:
You might be able to argue the "biased" part of your last statement Mr. Ford, but I challenge you to dispel Kevin's "misleading" statements. Yes, I said challenge. I don't think you'll accept that challenge, because quite frankly I don't think you ultimately care to put the time and effort it would take to do so. If you did take the time to research Kevin's claims thoroughly instead of throwing all of those "right wing" clinches at every response, you'd see the ugly truth.
If you like Fortner as a person, that's great. All I keep hearing about the guy is that he is really nice. I believe he is a nice man. I believe that he believes his intentions are for the greater good of the city. The problem with all of that is that he IS THE MAYOR! He has a job to do. It is critical that he properly educates himself of the issues at hand. He does not do that. As I said earlier, go to a council meeting it is painfully clear. He is being puppeted by a small group of people (and one council member) to do something about the (sarcastically) horrible atrocities that have happened to Davison. Adam, you said yourself that Davison has done some "pretty good things" in the past. That happened under the previous City Manager and previous Mayor.
I do appreciate your opposing position on this matter, sincerely, but you're not coming to the table with much to offer to back your statements. It is clear that you haven't researched these issues thoroughly, and that is fine, but you come off pretty fierce with little argument to stand on.
Since Fortner took office he has been incredibly negative towards so much of what Davison has accomplished and seems to be on a mission to put a halt to many things that have (in my opinion) improved Davison. He has actually spoken the words that "there is a dark cloud on the horizon for Davison". Why would the Mayor of a city say something like this about his city? What does that say to current and perspective residents? It paints an awful picture of a city that is on the rise and improving the way it has been for a long time now. Perception becomes reality. That negative approach will hurt Davison more than any canopy removal any day.
Davison is a great city, doing great things to be better all of the time. A new municipal building won't destroy this city. As far as the canopies go, if the store owners decide they want to keep them, then have them put the money into them to bring them up to code. They can't and don't. Something has to be done with them. They are dangerous. The city could face potential lawsuits if anyone were to be injured in any way from the canopies. It is in Davison's best interest to do something about this. I think Davison made the right choice to get rid of the canopies they did, and I personally feel that they should continue with the canopy removal regardless of the potential lawsuit against the city that stubborn business owners are speaking of. Wow! That's all for now.
I'm still waiting for kevin to disprove the article.
Fred's nicety could be actually be a problem. I'm far more aggressive than Fred is. Davison has done extremely well. Sometimes I use understatements. My main concern along with Fred's and some other actual residents was Davison was considering a strategy that could drift it off the path of excellence.
To me Kevin comes off as misleading because he was not sharing the whole story. kevin makes it sound like Fred only one because the Davison index printed one story that was a lie. I'm not convinced he has proven the story was a lie and I think it's a "stretch of the truth" to claim that is the only reason Fred won.
I never claimed the new center would destroy the city but I think residents and businesses can appreciate Davison's low taxes. I was downtown Davison the other day and it looks like some/many imrpovements have been made. On many fronts it looks like the bricks have been covered.
You don't think the county and state economy could be a dark cloud on the horizon?
I never said the new building would detroy the city but it would raise taxes. I was downtown the other day and it appeared to me a lot of changes have been made. A lot of the bricks have been covered up. Obviously safety should be the #1 priority but aren't the canopies helping to safeguard the bricks. |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:29 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Frappuhn schreef:
Adam,
I started The Garret Photographic Studio in 1975. I graduated from DHS in 1972, along with other Davison notables.
At the time of starting my business I was believed to be the youngest studio owner in the state.Also servied as president of Davison Chamber of Commerce w/7 years on the board of director.
My business has always been downtown Davison, I guess that explains my passion I have for downtown and the City.
Flint also has its fair share of passionate leaders. Fortunately for Davison its leadership seems to match it's passion with competence. |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:40 pm |
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strattonsigns
F L I N T O I D
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Fred,
I am very aware of the situation downtown. I redid the Davison Office Products storefront and made the new Shop Downtown Davison sign. Business owners should have a right to decorate their store fronts as they see fit (within reason). While I can see the benefits of having a (canopy) I think the look totally degrades the appearance of downtown.
We are all aware of the unfortunate bickering among the downtown merchants. It's a waste of time money and effort. As anyone can see, the canopys are coming down one way or another, just a matter of time. Those against are just gonna have to lick their wounds and get on to something PRODUCTIVE. |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:45 pm |
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Adam
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Frappuhn schreef:
Adam,
Adam,
Correct on not laying off employees,
There is absolute no reason to lay off employees !!!
Why would any Mayor consider that??????
Unless you haven't read or understand the budgets or audits.
Ignorance can really be a handicap
We have a "corporate park" (M-15/Danton Street/Rising Street)
I chose to call it that, the name "Industrial Park"
is so out of date and limited!!
Our LDFA has acquired many parcels of land ready to accommodate any business that would like to locate here. We are presently assisting the expansion of Fernco. And have a very good working relationship with Dav. Twp to the west that would help in any business venture.
As long as the budget is there there is money for the employees. Flint is forced to cut emplyees on a yearly basis.
I'm guessing you rarely if ever work with Flint. |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 3:36 pm |
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Kevin McKague
F L I N T O I D
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Adam said:
quote:
I'm still waiting for kevin to disprove the article.
[url=http://www.thedavisonindex.com/moxie/news/mayor-candidates-owe-taxe.shtml]
The Davison Index article
, [/url]are you kidding me? I explained it several times.
Nobody other than the publisher of the Index believed that simply being late at one time on your taxes qualifies legally as default, as defined by the charter, which disqualies anybody who has defaulted on taxes from serving in office. If you're late on your taxes, the city doesn't label your property as being in default and take it right away. There is a long, lenghthy process before it is declared "default".
Make no mistake, the Index hadn't made just one mistake. They had a method; They would start with the story they wanted to write, maybe based on a rumor about a political enemy of Jim Sherman's. They would then only interview those people willing to collaborate with the story they wanted to print. I can't tell you how many times I opened a paper only to see they've printed a story about me, without first actually checking what should be the main source of such a story....ME! They've done it to others as well.
Fred (Frappuhn) has made this point far better than I could have. Its funny to think that Federales1 thought he and I were one and the same.
I've said it before, and I'm saying it again.
If you really want to see how Mayor Fortner works, take some of these points made by Fred, and pose them to the mayor as a question. You'll see that funny smile he gets when he's confused, and he won't answer your questions.
His co-plaintiff in the lawsuit buddy, Jim Sherman helped seal the election for him with his newspapers, but Mac Fortner hadn't fully appreciated what he was going to do once he won. He thought he and Jim Hershberger would walk in and do whatever they wanted, and hadn't counted on there being any rules he would have to follow. He hadn't counted on the fact that the reasons he had been given over the years for the projects the city had been projects the city had been working on would still be the same reasons once becoming mayor. He refuses to look at read reports explaining the studies performed examining the issues he stubbornly refuses to see.
Talk to the mayor about these things Fred brought up, you'll see. Don't send him an e-mail though! Even though people I know have acknowledged that they've received e-mail from him in the past, once he became elected, he has refused to admit that he has an internet connection, and has refused the city's offer to set up an free e-mail account for him. He campaigned with the promise of better communiciation with the public, but he won't get e-mail, and he has never answered any of my letters. |
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Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 5:50 pm |
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Nobody other than the publisher of the Index believed that simply being late at one time on your taxes qualifies legally as default, as defined by the charter, which disqualies anybody who has defaulted on taxes from serving in office. If you're late on your taxes, the city doesn't label your property as being in default and take it right away. There is a long, lenghthy process before it is declared "default".
How does your charter define "default?"
Definition of default (verb)
forms: defaulted; defaulted; defaulting
to fail to perform a duty; to fail to pay on time; to fail to appear in court
Source: http://www.english-test.net/toeic/vocabulary/words/242/toeic-definitions.php
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Important Information for Property Owners with Delinquent Taxes
On July 22, 1999, the Governor of Michigan signed Public Act 123 of 1999, which shortens the time property owners have to pay their delinquent taxes before losing their property under the process called tax reversion. Property owners with taxes that are 2 years delinquent will go through a foreclosure process and the property may be sold at public auction.
Source: http://www.co.genesee.mi.us/treasurer/delrealproptaxes.html
----------------------
Those who don't pay property taxes on time shouldn't serve in public office. Public officials need to set good examples for those they serve. |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 8:41 pm |
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Kevin McKague
F L I N T O I D
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Default has a variety of different meanings. The important definition is that used by the legal community: http://www.nolo.com/definition.cfm/Term/CC81954E-8279-45DF-A83BE30702FEC5BF/alpha/D/
"Default" as defined by the legal community is when a determination has been made, usually by a judge, that the debtor has no intention of making good on a debt.
This is yet another example of when a good journalist would seek a variety of opinions from relevant subjects (i.e. a tax lawyer, or city clerk hired to interperet election laws), but the Index didn't do this. They would never do this, particularly if doing so would change the story they intended to print.
00SL2 said:
quote:
Those who don't pay property taxes on time shouldn't serve in public office. Public officials need to set good examples for those they serve.
That is one of the many qualifications voters should consider when voting. The Davison Index crossed the line when they said that according the the charter, votes for the three candidates (who just happened to be running against the publisher's co-plaintiff in a lawsuit against the city) would be VOID.
BTW, most cities have information on tax payments available on-line. After this story ran, I checked if Index publisher Jim Sherman paid his property taxes on time. On several occasions. Mr Sherman was late paying his own taxes, both at his home in Davison Twp., and on the building in downtown Davison where he published his paper.
I should also mention, that earlier this year, the Davison Index was sold to the company that also publishes the Grand Blanc View and the Lapeer Area View, and have, for the most part, been printing a pretty decent paper. |
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Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:16 pm |
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Kevin McKague
F L I N T O I D
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Think of it this way: Every couple of years a story is exposed in which somebody goes to great legnths to make sure that people in a particular neighborhood (usually, a neighborhood known to be filled with supporters of the opposing party) are confused about the date of election, or the location of the polling place. We've all heard stories of roadblocks being placed around polling places, or signs being posted notifying placed stating that certain voters should vote on Wednesdays, and so forth.
What if I had posted signs around Davison stating that according to a little-known law, votes for three of four candidates would be void? Chances are pretty good that I would be arrested for election tampering. Since this was done by the editor of a local paper, no discussion was given to bringing charges, and no other local media outlets would cover the story in order to offer opposing opinions. Nobody in the media wanted to touch a story critical of another media outlet. If I had done it, it would have been covered. |
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Lex clavatoris designati rescindenda est |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:23 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Adam said:
quote:
I'm still waiting for kevin to disprove the article.
[url=http://www.thedavisonindex.com/moxie/news/mayor-candidates-owe-taxe.shtml]
The Davison Index article
, [/url]are you kidding me? I explained it several times.
Nobody other than the publisher of the Index believed that simply being late at one time on your taxes qualifies legally as default, as defined by the charter, which disqualies anybody who has defaulted on taxes from serving in office. If you're late on your taxes, the city doesn't label your property as being in default and take it right away. There is a long, lenghthy process before it is declared "default".
Make no mistake, the Index hadn't made just one mistake. They had a method; They would start with the story they wanted to write, maybe based on a rumor about a political enemy of Jim Sherman's. They would then only interview those people willing to collaborate with the story they wanted to print. I can't tell you how many times I opened a paper only to see they've printed a story about me, without first actually checking what should be the main source of such a story....ME! They've done it to others as well.
Fred (Frappuhn) has made this point far better than I could have. Its funny to think that Federales1 thought he and I were one and the same.
I've said it before, and I'm saying it again.
If you really want to see how Mayor Fortner works, take some of these points made by Fred, and pose them to the mayor as a question. You'll see that funny smile he gets when he's confused, and he won't answer your questions.
His co-plaintiff in the lawsuit buddy, Jim Sherman helped seal the election for him with his newspapers, but Mac Fortner hadn't fully appreciated what he was going to do once he won. He thought he and Jim Hershberger would walk in and do whatever they wanted, and hadn't counted on there being any rules he would have to follow. He hadn't counted on the fact that the reasons he had been given over the years for the projects the city had been projects the city had been working on would still be the same reasons once becoming mayor. He refuses to look at read reports explaining the studies performed examining the issues he stubbornly refuses to see.
Talk to the mayor about these things Fred brought up, you'll see. Don't send him an e-mail though! Even though people I know have acknowledged that they've received e-mail from him in the past, once he became elected, he has refused to admit that he has an internet connection, and has refused the city's offer to set up an free e-mail account for him. He campaigned with the promise of better communiciation with the public, but he won't get e-mail, and he has never answered any of my letters.
I was under the impression Fred had a majority with him going in??? That appears incorrect. Most people aren't legal experts. A lot of people would assume if you owe money you might be in default.
Fred doesn't seem like he would be real internet savy. He also might be inundated with forwards.
Can't you just talk to him at the meeting? You guys do also have public comment at the council meeting. I think the point about the economic developement does sound valid. I think economic developement should possibly be the key issue across the county. I'm also a fan of low taxes and no uneccessary regulation to stimulate economic developement. |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:26 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
Think of it this way: Every couple of years a story is exposed in which somebody goes to great legnths to make sure that people in a particular neighborhood (usually, a neighborhood known to be filled with supporters of the opposing party) are confused about the date of election, or the location of the polling place. We've all heard stories of roadblocks being placed around polling places, or signs being posted notifying placed stating that certain voters should vote on Wednesdays, and so forth.
What if I had posted signs around Davison stating that according to a little-known law, votes for three of four candidates would be void? Chances are pretty good that I would be arrested for election tampering. Since this was done by the editor of a local paper, no discussion was given to bringing charges, and no other local media outlets would cover the story in order to offer opposing opinions. Nobody in the media wanted to touch a story critical of another media outlet. If I had done it, it would have been covered.
I've heard of stuff like that but mainly down south for the black neighborhoods before the civil rights act. I've sai stuff like that to some democrats but I think they were smart enough to realize I was joking.
I think you would have been quickly cited by Davison code enforcement unless they were all on private property. If they were on private propery the signs would probably have needed to be to big to convey your message and you would have been cited by code enforcement. From what I've heard people in Davison are a big fan of code enforcement.
If you moved to Flint you could probably illegaly put massive posterboards on private telephone property and get away with it. In Davison the cops would probably get called as you were putting up the first one. lol |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:39 pm |
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Kevin McKague schreef:
I should also mention, that earlier this year, the Davison Index was sold to the company that also publishes the Grand Blanc View and the Lapeer Area View, and have, for the most part, been printing a pretty decent paper.
If it ever gets sold to mlive you guys better start your own paper. |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:43 pm |
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Frappuhn
F L I N T O I D
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Strattonsigns,
Great, If you did work for Doug Gilmore you can just ask him, he speaks very highly of me, and I of him, and we are on the same wave length.
Doug is one of our jewels of downtown.
In fact Doug came down to my place to borrow my big ladder to work on the front of his building, sign, lights, ?????
Doug recommended the same sign guy to do some work for me.
Nice to meet ya!!
I as Mayor, pushed very hard for the downtown work to go threw, I am not ashamed one bit of what we acomplished while I was on City Council!
Hope to talk to you in person soon! |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:43 pm |
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Frappuhn
F L I N T O I D
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stratton sign,
Forgot to mention, while I sat on the DDA, I made the motion for the DDA to pay for the sign that you did for the downtown merchants.
Hope the check cleared!!
Nice sign, what type of wood was used to frame the sign, treated or a cedar?
I mentioned that the wood should be stained and sealed and nobody seemed conserned??? |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:53 pm |
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Frappuhn
F L I N T O I D
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Aam,
I have alot of exposure with the City of Flint goverment, I have a sister in law & brother in law that work for the city of Flint along with 3 nieces that are cops or dispatch. And many clients that are city of Flint employees.
And I have attended a meeting or two, along with county meetings.
I would venture to say that I know more about the city of flint goverment than you think you know about Davison's! |
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Sat Jun 14, 2008 11:59 pm |
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strattonsigns
F L I N T O I D
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Fred,
Exactly right about Doug, he truly cares about the City. Have done work for both him and his brother in Fenton.
The sign...the top plate and bottom plate (the parts that will take the abuse from the weather are cedar, the uprights are treated. None of the wood has to be sealed or treated in any way. Maintenance free!
I am in the process of moving the business to Goodrich and trying to open up a storefront here. As you know, since Davison Sign and Banner shut down, there isn't a sign shop in Davison, Goodrich, Brandon or Ortonville. So the need is there...I'm just short about $3,000 to get started. Not sure if you were aware of it or not, but I also do screenprinting.
Crossing my fingers and praying something comes along to help us get over that hump.
Keep up the good fight...you know your on the right side of these issues.
Rob |
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Sun Jun 15, 2008 7:47 am |
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