|
| Author
|
Post |
 
|
|
bigkfly
F L I N T O I D
|
As opposed to regurgitating your own personal bias? Or how about ABC 12? Even better, why don't I just listen to whatever Williamson tells you? After all, he knows more than the FBI, right?
If you guys don't start telling me why I'm wrong and disproving my points, I am going to start believing that you are too stupid and blinded by your own opinion. Why don't you challenge yourselves to think about why you are voting for Williamson? If the only problem with Walling is that he is too young then you guys are letting your jealousy of "youthful exuberance" cloud your judgment. Tell me why I'm wrong about the points I highlighted. I beg you, for the love of God, to figure out why else you are voting for Williamson or else change your mind. No one will look down on you.
 |
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:10 pm |
|
|
Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
|
I'm voting for Don because I can see the progress that's been made. Streets paved (yeah, I know, it means nothing), cleaner neighborhoods, crime IS dropping (look at monthly stats for this year), abandoned houses being torn down. I look at progress in the neighborhoods as having at least equal importance with downtown. Is Don perfect? No, but he's a lot better than the last few Mayors. He's the ONLY Mayor I can remember that's gone into the neighborhoods and asked people what the City can do to make their neighborhood better, then did it.
Every time I hear Dane speak, it sounds scripted. I see him as a professional politician; someone who's entire career has been at taxpayers' expense. I see endorsements from the County Democratic Party, and TV commercials paid for by the State Democratic Party. I see him as part of the Party establishment, who has their panties all in a wad because an "outsider" is Mayor. They're the same ones that spout their canned platitudes at campaign time and forget them after the election. The ones obsessed with "power" and pushing their own, and the Party's agendas. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:21 pm |
|
|
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
|
Bigkfly, no matter the age, if you really care about getting to truth you listen and read with an open mind and dig deeper for the real truth on your own instead of looking for a one-sided truth as is shown on your blog. Remember authors write from their own perception or personal experience. You either accept what you're told and being guided to read, or you research and form your own opinion instead of mimicking the ones before you. Just because "I told you so" doesn't mean it's true, including those news reports and the trash on forums.
You write "I never cite facts on the forum because it is not an appropriate medium to cite." It appears you're saying the forum is not an appropriate medium to cite, and I would tend to agree if you're trying to impress someone with truth. However, you can cite on the forum the source of your facts or other claims of truth. There are some of us not so enlightened who may care to follow up on reliable sources instead of just reading incendiary posts.
Don't be so sensitive to youth. Years don't matter as much as what's between the ears. And . . . degrees don't impress me for the same reason. It's not what you've got--it's how you use it! Communication skills and thoughtfulness are key.
I was 23 once, too!  |
|
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 6:02 pm |
|
|
bigkfly
F L I N T O I D
|
An open mind? Both sides of the case were presented on the blog, in the comments published by outside readers. You are right, we do have an agenda, but we did not come to that agenda lightly. We "searched" the facts and researched many sources that most Flint citizens would consider legitimate.
Listen, I'm not throwing up the fact that I have degrees. I am the first person in my family to graduate from college so I know there is more to a person than degrees. I was sarcastically suggesting I can read and come up with informed opinions.Some people on this forum seem to believe that 23 years olds have no experience and cannot make informed judgments. I agree with you that age does not matter. However, as seen in this forum, there are a lot of people out there who believe that does matter. That is a poor reason to vote against Walling who has "used it" as a Rhode Scholar, in Washington D.C., at the Land Bank, and in the formation of Flint Club.
Once again, all my sources are documented at gcydonline.blogspot.com. Check it out if you are looking for reliable sources. The Flint Journal, Detroit Free Press, the Uncommon Sense, and the FBI are the most reliable sources available for Flint politics. I did not use any information from forums.
People like to throw around the truth like it is malleable, which it is. It can change according to perspective. However, these are some facts that don't change:
1) Don promised 7,000 jobs. Flint is the highest center of unemployment in a state of high unemployment.
2) Don has created litigation damages over $10 million and has lost the city millions in grant money. Total: over $15 million not counting attorney fees and the more recent law suits.
3) The jail will cost more than a $1million a year. Don plans to fund this with the $500,000 a year revenue the city takes in from impound lots.
4) Don contributed $4,000 to George W. Bush.
5) Crime has doubled in the city since Don has been in office. Don has cut the police force and has yet to hire a new, permanent police chief.
6) Ed Kurtz balanced the budget. Williamson opposed Ed Kurtz and had a very public rivalry.
7) Don has used tax payer dollars for private interests including his own.
Cool Don violated the rights of the Flint newspaper delivery boy who was arrested by Don for delivering papers to city hall.
9) Don approved a plan to bust a Flint nightclub and strip search everyone regardless of suspicion.
10) The Land Bank is a nationally renowned governmental organization designed to redevelop blighted property. It has been heralded as a complete success by those in the field of urban redevelopment.
11) Don dumped a truck full of manure on a picket line of striking workers. He also told one of his managers to buy a truck full of pizza and soda for the employees who refused to sign his version of the employment contract.
12) He hired an ex-Sheriff, who lost his position due to improprieties on the job, to drive him around in his car painted with the word "police" on the side.
13) Don hired individuals who are accused of assaulting Flint citizens.
14) Don is being sued for sexual harassment and racial discrimination.
15) Don is an ex-con who served time in jail.
16) Many of Flint's parks have fallen into disrepair under Don's watch. Also, Don illegally dumped waste in violation of state environmental standards. He refused to comply after the problem was brought to his attention.
There are 16 facts you should think about before you decide to not vote for someone just because he is a Democrat or younger than 40. |
|
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:15 pm |
|
|
last time here
Guest
|
well well.....didn't the last rhodes scholar approve NAFTA?
i ain't impressed. williamson has my vote....
have a nice day.  |
_________________
Guest post |
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:36 pm |
|
|
bigkfly
F L I N T O I D
|
| There are 16 facts you should think about before you decide to not vote for someone just because he is a Democrat,younger than 40, or a RHODES SCHOLAR. SEE ABOVE. |
|
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:01 pm |
|
|
yaryrret
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
bigkfly schreef:
There are 16 facts you should think about before you decide to not vote for someone just because he is a Democrat,younger than 40, or a RHODES SCHOLAR. SEE ABOVE.
Sounds like a 12 step program plus 4 to me.
Lets ask this lady!
City improvements amazing
FLINT JOURNAL LETTER TO THE EDITOR
http://www.mlive.com/news/flintjournal/index.ssf?/base/news-10/1193836833228920.xml&coll=
THE FLINT JOURNAL FIRST EDITION
Wednesday, October 31, 2007
Journal Reader
In reference to a recent letter by
Mary Collick
of Flushing Township ["Williamson easy pick for mayor," Your Views, Oct. 25, Page A16], I admire her frankness and extreme common sense. I'm 81, born in Flint, and never have seen such city improvements in more than 60 years, not 25 years as she observed.
The people of Flint can either continue progressing by voting for Mayor Williamson or go back to the type of our previous mayors (mainly, Woodrow Stanley) of pocket politics and do-nothing officiating over Flint voters.
Don't be fooled by age references - look at what the mayor has accomplished.
Let's keep progressing with Mayor Williamson, and not go back to pitted roads with a Rhodes scholar.
Virginia Jacob
|
|
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:12 pm |
|
|
last time here
Guest
|
"no more nafta no more nafta no more nafta"
  |
_________________
Guest post |
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 8:18 pm |
|
|
00SL2
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
bigkfly schreef:
You are right, we do have an agenda, but we did not come to that agenda lightly. We "searched" the facts and researched many sources that most Flint citizens would consider legitimate.
WE? You and that frog in your pocket? If what you state below is what you consider FACT it's not all convincing to reasonable persons with common sense.
quote:
bigkfly schreef:
I was sarcastically suggesting I can read and come up with informed opinions.
You are mimicking what other bashers have been saying. Problem is, it's stale. You think by repeating it over and over anyone is going to change their mind, or somebody new will hear it? You're wasting your time and money.
Reason to vote against Walling? The extent of the bashing has gone way too far. Not anyone I want as mayor. Rhodes is a scholarship for academic achievement, not maturity.
quote:
bigkfly schreef:
The Flint Journal, Detroit Free Press, the Uncommon Sense, and the FBI are the most reliable sources available for Flint politics. I did not use any information from forums.
Those are "published" sources.
As far as the allegations you're calling facts:
1) Don can't be held responsible for being unable to create 7,000 jobs in the period of time he's been in office, or in the environment where plants are closing. It takes time to move beyond that loss and it's being worked on.
2) Not sure how much of the "litigation damages" can actually be attributed to Don, i.e., ones actually created by him personally. I give him credit for fighting excessive settlement fees now (interest, etc.) for sewer problems--lawsuit filed prior to his being elected. I don't recall how Don lost grant money; I do remember city council procrastinating on one that would cause them to lose money if it wasn't spent by certain date.
3) Are you complaining about jail cost? City of Flint should make provision in the budget to keep it open!!
4) "Don contributed $4,000 to George W. Bush." You're endeavoring to create a false impression! So what? He said he did it for the City of Flint. Opensecrets.org shows Mayor Donald J. Williamson donated $2,000 on 12/05/2003 and Mrs. Patsy Lou Williamson donated $2,000 on 12/05/2003. Not only that, but you've used that information
selectively.
Here's more for public, and it's possible it's not complete:
From opensecrets.org:
Contributor: Donald J.Williamson, and Donald Williamson
12/05/2003 $2,000 Bush, George W.
03/15/1999 $1,000 Stabenow, Debbie
11/02/1998 $1,000 Stabenow, Debbie
11/01/1996 $5,000 9th District Democratic Cmte
09/30/1996 $1,000 Kildee, Dale E
03/29/1996 $200 Stabenow, Debbie
03/27/1996 $1,000 Stabenow, Debbie
03/20/1996 $1,000 Kildee, Dale E.
09/02/1994 $1,000 Abraham, Spencer
06/21/1994 $1,000 Pollack, Lana
06/17/1993 $250 Riegle, Donald W.,Jr. (D)
06/15/1993 $600 Carr, Bob
Contributor:
Patsy Lou Williamson, and Mrs. Patsy Lou Williamson
12/05/2003 $2,000 Bush, George W.
06/16/2003 $1,000 Stabenow, Debbie
----------------------------------------------------------
Michigan Campaign Finance Contribution Analysis
Donald Williamson
07/28/05 $100. Michigan House Democratic Fund
07/30/04 $100 Steve Robinson for State Representative
04/29/04 $100 Michigan House Democratic Fund
02/06/04 $90. Genesee County Republican Party
08/02/02 $1,000. The Comm. to Elect John A. Gadola Judge
09/03/98 $100. Committee to Elect Sandy Hill
07/09/98 $200. Friends of David Leyton
Patsy Williamson, and Patsy Lou Williamson
10/29/06 $150. Lee Gonzales Team
10/26/06 400. Jennifer M Granholm for Governor
10/01/06 $500 Cte Albert A Zerka Probate Judge
08/28/06 $326,850.00 Cum Total Cte Patsy Lou Williamson for Sen 06
08/04/06 $1. MI Fraternal Order of Police
07/30/06 $500. Cte Albert A Zerka Probate Judge
07/05/06 $500. Cte Albert A Zerka Probate Judge
06/29/06 $1,725. M Scott Bowen for Atty General
06/22/06 $300. Lee Gonzales Team
06/08/06 300. Genesee County DemWomens Caucus PAC
03/24/06 500. Committee to Keep Judge Michael J Theile
12/19/05 $1. MI Fraternal Order of Police
07/30/04 50. Steve Robinson for State Representative
11/11/03 500. Citizens to Elect Mike Goschka
12/20/01 $1,000. Deb Cherry Comm
08/17/98 100. Committee to Elect Sandy Hill (State Rep)
5) Don is not responsible for increase in crime. The rates have come down since the jail was opened this spring. So what there's an interim police chief, he's acting as a police chief.
6) 03/05/02 Stanley recall election. Ed Kurtz served as Emergency Financial Manager for City of Flint from 07/08/02 to 06/30/04, appointed by Governor John Engler (R); don't forget the role Bob Emerson played in this. 08/06/02 James Rutherford elected to fill vacancy. Donald J. Williamson was elected as Mayor of City of Flint and sworn in on 11/10/03. Powers limited during term of Emergency Financial Manager until 06/30/04. Yes, there was a power struggle. Don't forget the important role acting mayor, City Administrator Darnell Earley, played in balancing the budget. He would have been a fine choice for Flint mayor. Our loss, Saginaw's gain!
7) You say, "Don has used tax payer dollars for private interests including his own." When you state this as fact you should back it up with examples. Also state which City account the money came from.
9) You say "Don approved a plan to bust a Flint nightclub and strip search everyone regardless of suspicion." Since when does a bust need to be approved by a mayor?
10) Doesn't blast Don.
11) If Don dumped a pile of manure, it's no worse than what you guys are doing now. Pizza and soda for employees a problem???
12) Why would Don need Joe to drive him around in any vehicle?
13) "Don hired individuals who are accused of assaulting Flint citizens." Oh, good grief. Incendiary statement. Be more specific. If you're talking about what I think you are, they were hired prior to incidents in question, and they're innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Give the conviction information.
14) "Don is being sued for sexual harassment and racial discrimination." Provide case documentation.
15) "Don is an ex-con who served time in jail." Forty years ago. So what? There are criminals who have records expunged and you'd never know it.
16) "Many of Flint's parks have fallen into disrepair under Don's watch." Most were in disrepair prior to Don's watch. "Also, Don illegally dumped waste in violation of state environmental standards. He refused to comply after the problem was brought to his attention." Be specific, back up your "facts."
"There are 16 facts you should think about before you decide to not vote for someone just because he is a Democrat or younger than 40."
In your case I won't hold your years against you, just what's between your ears! You are reiterating campaign rhetoric, not simply stating facts.  |
|
|
|
Wed Oct 31, 2007 11:37 pm |
|
|
bigkfly
F L I N T O I D
|
I tried to stick to facts last time like you asked. I gave no analysis or opinion. However, you have shown your bias. So here’s your answers with some of my biased analysis:
1) Why not? He promised it and he actively made it difficult to recruit new employers. How is an employer going to trust a city run by someone who likes to pretend he’s a cop? You are right it does take time, but we need leadership that doesn’t just keep falling back to the same source of Flint’s problems: GM. We need to diversify our economy to survive. Flint has five academic institutions, most with incredible programs in engineering. Flint is connected by I-69, I-75, Bishop, and by train. The Don has no vision for how to tap those resources. He had no plan during his last term and he hasn’t demonstrated a plan during this campaign. Walling has a plan.
2) Excessive settlement fees? Now the city is accountable for greater damages. Try telling all the residents that they don’t deserve the money they received in compensation for the City’s negligence. Those pipes were in disrepair and the City knew that. The Don lost HUD grant money. How can you explain away the rest? Plus, there are new suits being filed against the city based on Williamson’s specific employer behavior.
3) I like the fact that the jail is open. However, I would like to know how he plans to pay for it. And I don’t want to be lied to.
4) The State and County Party have endorsed Walling. The State Youth Caucus has endorsed Walling. The Genesee County Young Democrats unanimously endorsed Walling. The Black and Progressive Caucuses endorsed Walling. There is no coincidence that he runs his administration like a Republican and he also contributes to Republicans. In fact, he’s not just a Bush lover, he actually supports the RNC. He also has a history of anti-union behavior which is complemented by new allegations of sexual harassment and racial discrimination. These are not qualities the Democratic Party supports. If your additional contributions reveal anything, it is that Williamson like to play the fence. Does he even know who he supports?
5) Why has crime doubled? He cut the police force and appointed his cronies to important positions just like Stanley did. No wonder Flint the city has not grown significantly from the days of Woodrow. People can say what they want to about Woodrow’s support of Walling, but at least Walling doesn’t act like Woodrow. It is hard to say the same thing about Williamson.
6) Thanks for agreeing with me.
7) The money came from his executive funds, which are still tax payer dollars being spent for non-secular purposes. Why would he do that? I’m sure he is enjoying the votes.
9) Ever since he has a crony appointed police chief. The “police chief” asked him for the go-ahead. He agreed. Case closed.
10) Give credit where it belongs.
11) Criticize people who have no compassion for others. Those people depended on those jobs and had a legal right to strike protected under the National Labor Relations Act. Pouring manure on a picket line is discrimination. They had a right to address their grievances with their employer. You cavalierly dismiss that right. That is a right that most Flint citizens have benefited from. Plus, there were racial issues there too because the plant was mostly African American and there was reported tension over race.
12) Good point. Why did he? To make himself look silly I guess. It happened. You did not deny it. Thanks for agreeing with me.
13) You’re right, they are innocent before proven guilty. But this comes in a long line of abuses of power. At the very least, you should question his ability to judge character.
14) Snyder et al v. Flint, City of et al
15) He went to jail for running a car theft ring with connections to organized crime. That’s a pretty big deal that also suggests something about his character.
16) First, that should tell you about his lack of success as mayor. Second, his dumping site on Grand Traverse was in violation of Michigan environmental codes because it lies on top of an aquifer. Read the Flint Journal.
There were no value judgments in the last post. Just simple facts that you apparently can’t handle. Take your blinders off and stop poisoning peoples’ minds with your propaganda garbage. Better yet, put it in one of Williamson’s dumpsters where it belongs. |
|
|
|
Thu Nov 01, 2007 1:17 am |
|
|
rapunzel11
F L I N T O I D
|
Big K Fly....great posts!
thanks for voice of reason.
Peace,
Rap |
_________________
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all.
John F. Kennedy, speech at Vanderbilt University, May 18, 1963 |
|
|
Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:00 am |
|
|
bigkfly
F L I N T O I D
|
|
|
Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:07 am |
|
|
Al Garcia
F L I N T O I D
|
Man! The two of you have WAY to much time on your hands!
I think this round goes to.....BIGKFLY! |
_________________
WHAT THE HELL HAVE YOU PEOPLE DONE TO MY HOMETOWN? I KNEW I SHOULD OF HIRED A BABYSITTER! ALL THE RIFF RAFF OUT NOW!
alberto.garcia.85@hotmail.com |
|
|
Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:40 am |
|
|
Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D
|
quote:
bigkfly schreef:
4) The State and County Party have endorsed Walling. The State Youth Caucus has endorsed Walling. The Genesee County Young Democrats unanimously endorsed Walling. The Black and Progressive Caucuses endorsed Walling. There is no coincidence that he runs his administration like a Republican and he also contributes to Republicans. In fact, he’s not just a Bush lover, he actually supports the RNC. He also has a history of anti-union behavior which is complemented by new allegations of sexual harassment and racial discrimination. These are not qualities the Democratic Party supports. If your additional contributions reveal anything, it is that Williamson like to play the fence. Does he even know who he supports?
15) He went to jail for running a car theft ring with connections to organized crime. That’s a pretty big deal that also suggests something about his character.
There were no value judgments in the last post. Just simple facts that you apparently can’t handle. Take your blinders off and stop poisoning peoples’ minds with your propaganda garbage. Better yet, put it in one of Williamson’s dumpsters where it belongs.
4. So the Democratic party establishment has endorsed Dane in their attempt to take back control of Flint. All the more reason to vote for Don. Party politics and partisanship is the reason the country's in the mess it's in.
15. That was over 40 years ago. Should we demonize every person that's made a mistake in their life? "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone".
Pro Dane: "no value judgements, just simple facts".
Pro Don: "Poisoning people's minds with your propaganda garbage".
No value judgments? BULLSHIT. |
_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.
Pushing buttons sure can be fun.
When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.
Paddle faster, I hear banjos. |
|
|
Thu Nov 01, 2007 8:10 am |
|
|
last time here
Guest
|
ha ha ha ha..these pro dane guys are scratching for talking points..
don, hands down.. |
_________________
Guest post |
|
|
Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:22 pm |
|
|
|
Forum Rules:
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Register
Profile
FlintTalk.com Forum Index
> Political Talk
