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Steve Myers
Site Admin
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:14 am |
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Flinn's Journal
F L I N T O I D
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| I understand an old wall in the middle section failed and the stormy weather last night could have been a factor. |
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I HAVE SEVERED MY TIES WITH FLINTTALK.COM BECAUSE TROLLS CANNOT BE CONTROLLED ON THIS BOARD. |
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 10:52 am |
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D
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Those brick walls aren't enough to support the load of the new building materials, people, possesions etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see more problems with this building.
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Flint Michigan Resident, Tax Payer, Flint Nutt - Local REALTOR - Activist. www.FlintTown.com |
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:31 pm |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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kind of embarrassing for it to happen to a civil/architectural engineering firm's project.
uhhhh, are you skimping on the structural steel there buddy?
lets look at who signed off on those blueprints again............ |
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Biggie |
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Thu Aug 23, 2007 9:05 pm |
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taxd1
F L I N T O I D
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Ryan Eashoo posted:
"Those brick walls aren't enough to support the load of the new building materials, people, possesions etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see more problems with this building."[/i]
Gee Ryan........it must be fantastic to have that psychic ability. Along with your structural engineering license, did you also obtain a license to malign other people's work? Did you perform a thorough plan review of the structure? Had you visited the site and surveyed the existing structure?
Wow. What arrogance.
Also.......Biggie9 opined:
"kind of embarrassing for it to happen to a civil/architectural engineering firm's project."
"uhhhh, are you skimping on the structural steel there buddy?"
"lets look at who signed off on those blueprints again............"
Congrats Biggie9......you scored a triple dumbass play there.
Do you frequently post critical commentary here that demonstrates your idiocy and lack of common sense?
1. Rowe Engineering didn't design the project.
2. To suggest that someone would, ".....skimp...." on the structural design is simply cruel. Peoples lives are at risk here.
3. Why don't you, "...look at who signed off on those blueprints..."? You may be able to post something factual then. And possibly even semi-accurate. You can begin with the structural engineer, then make a trip to the city building officials, the lead architect, etc.
At least Flinn's Journal and Steve Myers performed and objective review and simply posted what they knew about the disaster....and it is a disaster folks. I wonder if Ryan and Biggie would be so glib if someone HAD died?
The developers downtown are trying their best to revitalize the city and you crass, negative thinkers are flailing away at their efforts with juvenile posts that derve no useful purpose.
Oh, and before someone starts posting that I'm only doing this because I work for Rowe or the developers..........wrong-o. I thought this site was a fine place to learn about Flint, form an opinion about Flint and possibly contribute my commentary in an effort to help improve Flint. After participating for a week or so, it's obvious that it requires more positive thinkers to freshen the material.
Grow up Ryan........get a life Biggie9........learn to be responsible adults. |
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 8:08 am |
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FlintWorker67
F L I N T O I D
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Their Slogan:
"We stand by what we build". lol
How stupid to add floors to 100 plus year old buildings, and to use the load bearing walls as host to new construction.
Ask any engineer, they errored here!
Biggie maybe they need to hire you to help'em out! LOL
quote:
Biggie9 schreef:
kind of embarrassing for it to happen to a civil/architectural engineering firm's project.
uhhhh, are you skimping on the structural steel there buddy?
lets look at who signed off on those blueprints again............
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City of Flint Employee Who is pissed off and tired of the decline of our City! |
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:48 pm |
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FlintWorker67
F L I N T O I D
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Gosh, look at the construction, look at what the State Historic Preservation Officer said in todays Flint Journal. Looks like they backed Biggie9 and Eashoo.
quote:
taxd1 schreef:
Ryan Eashoo posted:
"Those brick walls aren't enough to support the load of the new building materials, people, possesions etc. I wouldn't be surprised to see more problems with this building."[/i]
Gee Ryan........it must be fantastic to have that psychic ability. Along with your structural engineering license, did you also obtain a license to malign other people's work? Did you perform a thorough plan review of the structure? Had you visited the site and surveyed the existing structure?
Wow. What arrogance.
Also.......Biggie9 opined:
"kind of embarrassing for it to happen to a civil/architectural engineering firm's project."
"uhhhh, are you skimping on the structural steel there buddy?"
"lets look at who signed off on those blueprints again............"
Congrats Biggie9......you scored a triple dumbass play there.
Do you frequently post critical commentary here that demonstrates your idiocy and lack of common sense?
1. Rowe Engineering didn't design the project.
2. To suggest that someone would, ".....skimp...." on the structural design is simply cruel. Peoples lives are at risk here.
3. Why don't you, "...look at who signed off on those blueprints..."? You may be able to post something factual then. And possibly even semi-accurate. You can begin with the structural engineer, then make a trip to the city building officials, the lead architect, etc.
At least Flinn's Journal and Steve Myers performed and objective review and simply posted what they knew about the disaster....and it is a disaster folks. I wonder if Ryan and Biggie would be so glib if someone HAD died?
The developers downtown are trying their best to revitalize the city and you crass, negative thinkers are flailing away at their efforts with juvenile posts that derve no useful purpose.
Oh, and before someone starts posting that I'm only doing this because I work for Rowe or the developers..........wrong-o. I thought this site was a fine place to learn about Flint, form an opinion about Flint and possibly contribute my commentary in an effort to help improve Flint. After participating for a week or so, it's obvious that it requires more positive thinkers to freshen the material.
Grow up Ryan........get a life Biggie9........learn to be responsible adults.
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City of Flint Employee Who is pissed off and tired of the decline of our City! |
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 12:49 pm |
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Charlie
F L I N T O I D
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It was no secret that the walls were not strong enough to hold the building. That is why the building is not done yet. What ever engineer suggestted the
solution of putting rods through the old bricks to hold the two walls together was in error. That solution would have been alright for a new roof but not two additional floors. They should have brought up new steel beams from the ground.
The real problem is that Uptown and their architects and engineers do not have the expereince in urban rehabs, especially expanding a building upward. It is unfortunate but I am sure they have learned their lesson. I understand that is why the Wade Trim Building is going to be all new. They didn't want to get into this mess again.
Accidents happen, lets be glad no one was hurt and that the project will continue on. |
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:08 pm |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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I'll work on getting that 'life" taxd1 if you work on getting a sense of humor.
Seriously though.
I note you can not disagree with someone's post without getting personal & nasty. Thats called an ad hominen attack.
You may vehemently disagree with my opinion, and that is all it is, but you do not know if I am a dumbass or if Ryan is arrogant.
Apparently you joined this group only because you felt everyone believes and sees things as you do? Sorry. As you are finding out they do not.
As far as Flinn & Steve, they merely posted a news item; ones that had been reported by others.
The comments made besides are OPINION posts. If you react so negatively to people who have a different perspective than yours, I'd suggest holing up in your home and don't venture out onto the internet where others.."GASP" may see things and say things differently than you feel.
BTW, why puckishly posted, I stand by my statements.
To the passer-by it will look "bad" because an engineering firm, which engineers and designs structural elements, facilities etc is struck by an apparent structural failure. It doesn't matter what the cause; its the perception. The casual observer probably wouldn't recognize the possible causes, nor understand the apparent error when it is identified. It just looks bad. Its ironic. Its not the end of world, to Rowe or the city, but I am sure they are not smiling over the failure.
Steel beams are the basic structural element of buildings. Not brick walls.
I bet those two brick walls were augmented with steel members, or were off-loaded to other structural members. Brick walls can not resist twisting, they are ok for compressive loads, but not tension or twisting. Thus my comments regarding steel.
Any construction documented should have engineered with a significant safety factor, considering maximum loads [rain, snow, wind, dynamic & static loads] etc...then IT is checked and signed off for by usually an experienced and licensed professional engineer. You can have a junior engineers design the various elements, but it must pass before the eyes of a "professional" before it should be released as a construction document Thus my final comment.
Flintworker67, though I did indeed specialize in facility design in my engineering degree, its been so many decades since I used that education & experience, I would not deign to substitute my meager remaining insights into today's facility designs. The materials have changed, the technology, the tools et al. But even I wouldn't have an old brick wall as a load bearing element.
Honest taxd1, don't take what others say so personally. I hate to think I have you in a mouth-foaming tizzy just by some personal opinions expressed here. Remember, we can only control our own behaviors, not the actions of others. Don't let it get you down that all people don't have your sense of humor [or lack of] and don't share your perspective.
So I am off to find my life. have yo ustarting looking for your sense of humor yet...by the way did my wife you up to that statement?  |
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Biggie |
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 1:55 pm |
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Flinn's Journal
F L I N T O I D
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| Remember when the Lebowsky Center in Owosso burned last February? the large wall alongside Park Street had bowed inward. The bent steel columns inside the brick wall kept the wall up until the theater was partially demolished last May. More info at http://cinematreasures.org/news/16468_0_1_0_C/ and we are all thankful that it will be rebuilt. |
_________________
I HAVE SEVERED MY TIES WITH FLINTTALK.COM BECAUSE TROLLS CANNOT BE CONTROLLED ON THIS BOARD. |
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 2:11 pm |
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taxd1
F L I N T O I D
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[quote="Biggie9"]I'll work on getting that 'life" taxd1 if you work on getting a sense of humor.
Seriously though.
I note you can not disagree with someone's post without getting personal & nasty. Thats called an ad hominen attack.
Gee Biggie......isn't there an old saw regarding the pot calling the kettle.........? You accuse me of an "ad hominem attack" but excuse yourself for viscious accusations directed toward honorable professionals before you have obtained one iota of fact......you know? That stuff that's stranger than truth?
And the other bias that you have is that I cannot respond to posts in any way unless it meets your approval? So, let's see, you demean others: It's fine. You issue opinion: It's fine. I point out your unfair comments and opinions and you void it? Wow. Quite a little kingdom you have Biggie.
"Apparently you joined this group only because you felt everyone believes and sees things as you do? Sorry. As you are finding out they do not."
I didn't join anything. I'm merely using this forum as everyone else does: To state an OPINION (RE: Your directive below)
"The comments made besides are OPINION posts. If you react so negatively to people who have a different perspective than yours, I'd suggest holing up in your home and don't venture out onto the internet where others.."GASP" may see things and say things differently than you feel."
"BTW, why puckishly posted, I stand by my statements."
Puckish??? Believe me, I took no malevolent delight in reading your initial post or my response. That illustrates my position though.........tragedy, no matter whose it is, does not deserve ruthless, unverified conjecture.
You see, you're not looking at all of the possibilities her biggie. All of your pontificating about your engineering background and the history of structural steel does not speak to the issue of outside influence on the building (ever hear of bracing, wind loads?)
I'll agree that there is an appearance of design issues but I won't broadcast what a poor engineering job was done before all of the facts are in. That's just a DUMBASS and ARROGANT move.
"Honest taxd1, don't take what others say so personally. I hate to think I have you in a mouth-foaming tizzy just by some personal opinions expressed here. Remember, we can only control our own behaviors, not the actions of others. Don't let it get you down that all people don't have your sense of humor [or lack of] and don't share your perspective."
Personally? No, not me. I just happen to have a bit of honor that most people today seem to be missing. I do not speak poorly of others unless I speak to them. That's the courageous way to vent your feelings. What you did was as cowardly as it gets. I'll bet you did a lot of whispering about others in elementary school. Didn't you? Probably humorous though.
So biggie........don't waste too much time searching for that life.....you may miss too many opportunities to demean others............including your wife.[/b] |
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 6:20 pm |
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D
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wow, you got issues.
that is for sure.
good luck with them.
I bet you cry when you cut your nails, thats a tragedy too. |
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Biggie |
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Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:23 pm |
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FlintWorker67
F L I N T O I D
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If uptown wants to do some development why restore those old buildings?
I agree with you Charlie, they need to do more home work on things!
quote:
Charlie schreef:
It was no secret that the walls were not strong enough to hold the building. That is why the building is not done yet. What ever engineer suggestted the
solution of putting rods through the old bricks to hold the two walls together was in error. That solution would have been alright for a new roof but not two additional floors. They should have brought up new steel beams from the ground.
The real problem is that Uptown and their architects and engineers do not have the expereince in urban rehabs, especially expanding a building upward. It is unfortunate but I am sure they have learned their lesson. I understand that is why the Wade Trim Building is going to be all new. They didn't want to get into this mess again.
Accidents happen, lets be glad no one was hurt and that the project will continue on.
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City of Flint Employee Who is pissed off and tired of the decline of our City! |
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Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:22 pm |
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FlintWorker67
F L I N T O I D
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Did you ever look at the middle walls they attached the new floors to? 110 year old bricks that were crumbling. People warned them about this, but their firm said it could stand the test of time!
You are the negative one here, leave biggie9 alone!
[quote="taxd1"]
quote:
Biggie9 schreef:
I'll work on getting that 'life" taxd1 if you work on getting a sense of humor.
Seriously though.
I note you can not disagree with someone's post without getting personal & nasty. Thats called an ad hominen attack.
Gee Biggie......isn't there an old saw regarding the pot calling the kettle.........? You accuse me of an "ad hominem attack" but excuse yourself for viscious accusations directed toward honorable professionals before you have obtained one iota of fact......you know? That stuff that's stranger than truth?
And the other bias that you have is that I cannot respond to posts in any way unless it meets your approval? So, let's see, you demean others: It's fine. You issue opinion: It's fine. I point out your unfair comments and opinions and you void it? Wow. Quite a little kingdom you have Biggie.
"Apparently you joined this group only because you felt everyone believes and sees things as you do? Sorry. As you are finding out they do not."
I didn't join anything. I'm merely using this forum as everyone else does: To state an OPINION (RE: Your directive below)
"The comments made besides are OPINION posts. If you react so negatively to people who have a different perspective than yours, I'd suggest holing up in your home and don't venture out onto the internet where others.."GASP" may see things and say things differently than you feel."
"BTW, why puckishly posted, I stand by my statements."
Puckish??? Believe me, I took no malevolent delight in reading your initial post or my response. That illustrates my position though.........tragedy, no matter whose it is, does not deserve ruthless, unverified conjecture.
You see, you're not looking at all of the possibilities her biggie. All of your pontificating about your engineering background and the history of structural steel does not speak to the issue of outside influence on the building (ever hear of bracing, wind loads?)
I'll agree that there is an appearance of design issues but I won't broadcast what a poor engineering job was done before all of the facts are in. That's just a DUMBASS and ARROGANT move.
"Honest taxd1, don't take what others say so personally. I hate to think I have you in a mouth-foaming tizzy just by some personal opinions expressed here. Remember, we can only control our own behaviors, not the actions of others. Don't let it get you down that all people don't have your sense of humor [or lack of] and don't share your perspective."
Personally? No, not me. I just happen to have a bit of honor that most people today seem to be missing. I do not speak poorly of others unless I speak to them. That's the courageous way to vent your feelings. What you did was as cowardly as it gets. I'll bet you did a lot of whispering about others in elementary school. Didn't you? Probably humorous though.
So biggie........don't waste too much time searching for that life.....you may miss too many opportunities to demean others............including your wife.[/b]
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City of Flint Employee Who is pissed off and tired of the decline of our City! |
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Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:23 pm |
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last time here
Guest
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all i know is i am quite interested in finding out why the collapse happened.
i'll bet everyone including the bonding companies are sweating bullets!
personally speaking, installing ANY significant new construction supported by 100 year old brickwork alone, without a NEW structural steel framing
would worry me.  |
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Sun Aug 26, 2007 1:45 pm |
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