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Topic: Dialogue on Public Safety
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

And bossman remember if they are keeping 9, only 41 are cut, plus the 4 you said have been hired for south side brings it down to 37 (although if the 14 I have heard from council people, etc is true, that number is really 27 less than last year) . Just saying, 50 doesent make sense if 13 have been hired since august.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 3:39 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

Munnbreslin- I don't want to debate. Bossman is on the ground floor of the issue and I defer to his knowledge and that of some of the other officers who have replied to Flinttalk and M-live.

The fact that the police administration has not met it's obligation in making changes to accomadate the smaller force means either more incompetance or there is a major deception occuring. I strongly believe Walling has miscalculated the resolve of the police department.

Also, if a grant says we must rehire laid off officers and we haven't, then we have not complied with the terms of the grant. Retention is propbably part of the grant too. The police have repeatedly posted these jobs have not been filled. That is why your numbers will never be correct.

One officer gave an explanation of what happens when the contract required staffing levels are not met. This years flu knocked whole offices down and I am sure that affected the police too.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:06 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

Munnbreslin= I will be surprised if we get 9 officers to sign on to Wallings "foot patrol" plan from his childhood remembrances.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:07 pm 
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D

Munn, only 4 officers have been hired since August, and none of the people that have retired have been replaced. Here's apocalyptic numbers for you.

There are 30 officers assigned to 2nd shift patrol right now. After March 9 there will be 14. Those 14 will be split to cover the two separate squads that are on second shift. Those squads work alternate days. So now, you have 7 officers working 2nd shift on a nightly basis. 1 of those officers is assigned to the patrol desk. That leaves 6 officers on road patrol.

The city is divided into 4 sectors. That means that there aren't even 2 officers per sector. Most calls have two officers sent to them. That means that only 3 calls can be handled at a time. Unless its a completely frivolous call it will require about 10-15 minutes to handle it. That's provided the officers don't have to make an arrest.

Second shift usually begins about 20 calls down and can grow to up to 50 calls down at times. That's at current staffing levels. That means that if there are never any arrests and each call is handled and cleared in a timely manner, there are anywhere from 17-47 calls that are waiting for service.

Here is some reality. Just today a call came in at around 1030am for a domestic. The woman was calling on her boyfriend breaking out her windows with a hammer. No officers were available to respond. The woman called back at 1230pm to ask for an ETA. The man was still breaking windows. Still no officers available. The woman called back at 315pm and advised that she had shot the suspect with a rifle. Life extinguished because there were no officers available for 5 hours in the middle of the day at current staffing levels.

Ask me again when you need some apocalyptic reality.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D

I forgot to add.....of the seven assigned, 3 are allowed to be off on vacation time and 1 is allowed to be off on "flex" or "comp" time. That leaves 3 officers if all the slots are used. 1 on the desk and 2 on the road.

Let's just hope no one is sick.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D

One last thing. When you talk about crime statistics you have to remember that the numbers can be skewed depending on reporting practices. Williamson's administration changed the way they reported several serious crimes and it resulted in the appearance of reduced crime. I can assure you that there will be nothing close to a 10% reduction in crime because of Walling's fantasy foot patrol program. With the pending layoffs and the wasting of 9 bodies on a futile endeavor, we will be lucky if we can keep crime from climbing more than 15-20% this year.

So much for Wallings commitment to public safety. If I didn't think I would take such a bath on my house, I would move out of the City immediately. Maybe I should've bailed as soon as they removed residency like most of the other cops. Now I'm stuck. Rising taxes, rising water rates, rising crime rate, falling property values, and falling quality of life. Sheesh.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 9:13 pm 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

Bossman you hold a very logical argument. and again, I completely disagree with these layoffs. Does walling know these specific stats that you are saying? My major point is, if 6 officers are on road patrol every night on second shift, plus 9 officers on foot patrol, doesn't that make 15 officers patrolling? 5 more than before the layoffs? Also, it would seem that the department needs to change the way it is run to cope with layoffs. The current system is built around a department of hundreds, not a hundred. Also, how in a department of 160 cops are only 30 on second shift? Thats only 19% of the department!? Where are all of the other officers? And weren't we assured of a crime increase in double digits last year after the Brown administration cut cops? Again, I appreciate your stats and agree that these layoffs are horrible, but we need to cope with them. Community Foot Patrols will eliminate problems before they start, logically decreasing call volume. Check the COPS website, whole page on how community policing is used if its worked effectively.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:31 pm 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

Also, if a cop was already in your ward, or even on your street, wouldn't that cause less problems to occur originally or decrease a response? Heck to know that a cop is within a mile or so of your home for 8 hours in the evening, and that he could be on your street at any time seems to make me feel safer. I know that my major complaint has been hardly ever seeing cops out of their car (no offense to any officers, I respect your work). I would just rather see a cop walking by my house than driving by at 20 mph while people are sneaking around back. Finally, how will community policing fail? I continue to hear your claims that it is pointless and I just would like to know why this is so, especially if the number of mini-stations will be at 9, not the 6 we used to have.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:42 pm 
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D

Munn, you are absolutely right. Community policing is great if it is used effectively and in an adequately staffed department. The Hot Spot policing method which Walling is emulating(I use that term loosely) was very effective in New York. The difference is that in New York they deployed hundreds of cops into a relatively small area on foot, and that area was highly populated. In Flint, Walling is going to put 1 cop on foot into a much larger area that is sparsely populated(comparatively speaking). Not exactly tit for tat. This technique will not have any effect in reducing crime. The officers will not be able to help with keeping call volume down because if they are on foot they will be unable to respond in a timely manner. If they put them in a cruiser so they can respond to radio calls, then we have no foot patrol.

What many are unaware of is the fact that the recently announced "foot patrol" grant from the Mott Foundation was secured by the City in September. I wonder why they decided to keep it under wraps until just after massive layoffs were announced. Hmmm.....look at me....I secured a grant so I don't have to lay off as many cops. Just sayin.

If you are seriously interested in seeing the breakdown of officer deployment you should drop me an email. I would love to break it down for you.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:46 pm 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

Bossman thank you, you stand as an invaluable resource for this site. My only, i guess disagreement with your statement is wouldn't community policing create more of a sense of omnipresence? If you feel that a cop could be anywhere, wouldn't you be more apt to not do a crime? I know cities like Ferndale and Hazel Park have been great examples of police omnipresence felt throughout the community. Heck, downtown crime has plummeted since the introduction of beat cops. I'm not saying that community policing is a silver bullet, nothing is, but if criminals feel that a cop could be anywhere in their ward or turning down their street at any time, wouldn't that decrease criminal activity? Also, if beat cops know the trouble houses in neighborhoods, wouldn't they be able to identify and deal with the locations quickly, even if it was just talking to parents. I know residents of Mott Park have routinely expressed a desire for a policing form such as this.


P.S. The grant has only been discussed since September. The grant writing process is so long and meticulous that it is possible to take 6 months to deal with an issue, especially with an organization with the size of the C.S. Mott Foundation.
Post Fri Feb 26, 2010 11:59 pm 
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D

Munn, believe me, the officers know where the trouble houses are in their respective areas now. The crime downtown was never out of control. I have been saying for years that the downtown area of the city is hands down the safest area of the city. Outside of the high call volume and low officer count, what keeps people from not knowing when a cop might turn down their block now? I know that when I patrol I try to make it a point to do the majority of my travels on the residential streets, not the main thoroughfares.

My point is Flint cannot be reasonably compared to ANY department ANYWHERE in the country. Our officer counts and crime numbers are not matched by any department. When Ed Kurtz was running the city he had a retired Captain from Ann Arbor PD do a study to determine what needed to be done with the PD to make it more efficient. The study showed exactly what I mentioned. Almost every point in the study indicated that we needed more officers and more detectives.
Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:26 am 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

Bossman again, I agree with you. More officers and detectives is exactly what the department needs, but the cash isn't there. It would appear that community policing is the best way to cope with a smaller force. Can the individual sergeants attempt to grant write? Also, wouldn't it be logical to give the UM-Flint police and Baker Police arrest rights like the Mott cops have? If the FPD cant patrol all of flint, why not let university departments assist you?
Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 11:36 am 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

Plus, I think a major positive to this community policing initiative is the partnership with MSU. Being able to use their data and statistics to focus patrols will help, and will be done outside of the department, leaving more officers to patrol and respond to calls. Hopefully we can get more grants though, they are desperately needed.
Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:01 pm 
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D

All the data, focusing & other theories are worthless if there's no officers on patrol. If there's nobody to respond to calls, there's NO public safety.

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Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:39 pm 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

Yeah but Dave the information is provided to the community policing officers before and or during their patrols to identify crime trends in their wards, and these officers will act in a more preventative nature than a reactionary one. These officers are more-so designed to defuse problems before they begin rather than respond to incidents already occurring. The practice has reduced call volume as much as 50% in major cities, but since the flint program is such a small scale, don't look for much more than 10%. The practice is just built around stopping crimes before they happen by establishing community connections. This grant also funds training for block clubs and neighborhood patrols, putting neighborhood security in the hands of residents, but with a mini-station to work out of. Its much different than the way the department is used to operating. If call volume is reduced (when practiced in the 80s, call volume was reduced over 40%) than calls can be responded to quicker. The major question should be why didn't the city get a larger grant for 3 or 4 cops per ward, and thats only about a $5 million grant compared to this $1.15 million dollar one. The city needs to ask for more funding, especially since the foundation has shown their ability to give larger sums.
Post Sat Feb 27, 2010 1:49 pm 
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