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Topic: Dialogue on Public Safety
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

So i'd like to see if we can have a dialogue, not a debate on the issue of public safety. Here's what i'm thinking.


Since Dayne took office in August, 14 cops were hired through grant funding (8 from stimulus, 6 for South Side).

We were then told 57 cops would be layed off, but this included demotions. The actual number is 50 now.

Now if we want to compare where the FPD is now as of lets say the day Walling took office last August, its 50 cops being laid off, but take off 14 from that number from federal grants, plus another 9 from the Mott grant, and that leaves 27 less cops than as of August of 2009.

Also, with this Mott grant and new foot patrol daily in every ward, plus mini-stations in every ward, will we not have at least 9 cops on patrol from 5pm to 1am every day? This would seem to address, to a certain degree, the argument that we have had, at points, only 2 cops patrolling.

Now I too think that these cop layoffs are not fair, a massive mistake by Walling, and far too quick, especially since arbitration has not been given a chance.

But being told that originally we would have 57 less cops, and now, compared to August of 2009, its only 27 less, the scope seems less apocalyptic. I'm still not justifying this horrible, horrible decision by Walling, but lets at least realize that 9 foot patrol cops in neighborhoods cant hurt. A big complaint of this city's residents lies in problem houses and problem kids. When an officer has a beat, those get addressed, as compared to a citywide coverage that a cop must provide where problems are much more spread out and cannot be addressed so minutely (Downtown beat cops have been an amazing success).

Again, lets try to make a dialogue on this, not a debate. Bossman, you seem very knowledgeable on this, please post which of these assumptions may be right/wrong or what will or will not happen. Overall, lets just realize that its not as apocalyptic as it seemed a week ago, but still needs to be discussed.
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:41 pm 
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Derrick1965
F L I N T O I D

If the union won't budge then lay them off.
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:04 pm 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

Sorry, the Mott grant will get 18 community cops so that takes the number of layoffs from Aug 09, if they are all new hires, to 18. 18 cop layoffs since August of 2009. Just trying to make a different perspective here
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:34 pm 
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D

Bottom line: public safety is each person's personal responsibility. The police are a reactive organization, and in Flint, will soon be even less reactive. Each person must be proactive and take the necessary steps to keep themselves and their families safe. If that involves obtaining a legal firearm and learning how yo use it, so be it. If you want to wait for a cruiser when your home is being invaded, that's fine. I prefer to have the means at hand top defend myself and my family.

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Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:51 pm 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

But dave wouldnt this make the department more reacive if they were foot patrolling areas and identifying problems before they occured? Just saying.
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:38 pm 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

*that meant to say proactive
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:50 pm 
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D

One officer, alone, on foot, patrolling at night is going to be very dangerous. Driving to a particular area, then walking along a block may help; I hope so. There are some parts of Flint, including those within walking distance of my home, that I won't drive through at night without having something on my hip.

What would help would be enough officers on the force so the majority of them don't get called to a single incident. I'd like to see the same officers in the same area all the time, so they'd get to know the people that live there & the people could know them. Patrolling the same area all the time would enable the officers to know who the good people and the bad people are.

_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.

Pushing buttons sure can be fun.

When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.

Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:53 pm 
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D

Dave thats actually what this grant does. It puts the same officers in the same areas (and I discovered it is 2 per ward). This is the press release (sorry for you non-spartans, there is MSU involvement):


The Charles Stewart Mott Foundation has awarded the City of Flint $1,150,000 to fund the city’s 21st Century Community Policing Program. The award will support a pilot program for one year beginning March 1, 2010.

The grant will enable the City of Flint to reinstitute neighborhood foot patrols and community policing strategies. At least 18 community police officers will be deployed across all nine of the city’s wards, including a foot patrol officer in every ward during second shift.

“This grant award is great news for the city of Flint and its residents. Community policing is a proven tool for effective crime fighting,” said Dayne Walling, Flint Mayor. “What’s so great about the 21st Century Community Policing effort is it will employ new strategies, new techniques, and new partnerships all working in concert resulting in a safer community.”

“My top priority for 2010 is reducing crime by at least 10 percent,” Walling said. “Community policing brings us one step closer to reaching that goal.”

The grant paves the way for the city to open and staff a police mini-station in each ward. Grant dollars also will be used to recruit and train volunteers for the mini stations; register and link all neighborhood crime watch, block clubs and neighborhood organizations; and provide crime prevention, legal and public safety presentations to the public through the city’s Police Department and Human Relations Commission.

With the C.S. Mott Foundation’s support, the community also will have access to the resources available through Michigan State University’s (MSU) School of Criminal Justice and the Michigan Regional Community Policing Institute.

“The partnership with MSU will provide evaluation, technical assistance, and specialized training for our public safety personnel,” said Mayor Walling.

The original Flint community policing program was initiated by the late Max A. Durbin, who as Flint’s chief of police conducted “listening sessions” with block clubs throughout Flint to better understand and improve police-community relations. In collaboration with the International Association of Chiefs of Police, the Flint Police Department created a community policing model that not only provided full law enforcement services, but emphasized the social service and problem-solving aspects of the patrol officer’s job. The concept became fully operational in 1979, when 22 foot patrol officers were trained and deployed to 14 areas of the city. In collaboration with MSU’s National Neighborhood Foot Patrol Center, established in 1982 with more than $1 million in C.S. Mott Foundation support, the Flint program served as a national model for public safety reform.

Flint’s Neighborhood Foot Patrol Program reduced calls-for-service by more than 43 percent and reduced crime by 8.7 percent during a period when crime rates in areas without a foot patrol officer were on the rise, according to a three-year evaluation conducted between 1979 and 1981 by MSU. That same evaluation also indicated that Flint residents who lived in areas patrolled by foot reported an increased perception of safety as well as increased motivation to become involved in neighborhood crime prevention.
The C.S. Mott Foundation has supported the concept of community policing since its inception in the late 1970’s. Between 1977 and 1983, the Foundation awarded more than $3 million to the city of Flint in support of the Neighborhood Foot Patrol, a community policing strategy that provided full law enforcement services while emphasizing the social service and problem-solving aspects of the patrol officer’s job. Additionally, the Foundation granted just over $2 million for national community policing efforts.

The C.S. Mott Foundation, established in 1926 in Flint, Michigan, by an automotive pioneer, is a private philanthropy supporting nonprofit programs throughout the U.S. and, on a limited geographic basis, internationally. Grantmaking is focused in four programs: Civil Society, Environment, Flint Area and Pathways Out of Poverty. The Foundation, with year-end assets of approximately $2.1 billion, made 469 grants totaling $109.3 million in 2009.
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:58 pm 
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D

Munn, Don't believe the hype. First of all, there were only 4 officers ever rehired by the various grants you have mentioned. That includes the stimulus and South Side grants. There are still 40 officers laid off, 5 sergeants demoted, 1 captain demoted, and 2 lieutenants demoted.

Second, if you would have attended the city council meeting last night you could have heard right from the horses mouth that there will only be 9 officers retained by the Mott Foundation Grant. 1 officer per ward working from 5pm to 1am. There was hope expressed by the mayor that the 1 year program would be successful and could eventually be expanded to 2 cops per ward.

Finally, When the foot patrol program was implemented in the 1970's, the City of Flint WAS the model program for the entire US. That was then, this is now. In the 1970's the police department was pushing 400 members strong. Roll calls were standing room only and the foot patrol officers rode around on mopeds. Now we are about to be down to 100 cops, there is maybe 5-7 officers in each roll call, and the officers will be on foot with a cruiser parked a few blocks away at best. At the current staffing levels it is impossible to keep up with call back log that already exists. Crime will be out of control this summer and each violent crime that occurs will be blood spilled by an incompetent mayor.
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 9:54 pm 
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andi03
F L I N T O I D

Why in the h#ll do I have a feeling that someone, not necessarily here on this board, cannot do simple ()*^*(&%^ math?!

Sophomoric rambling: That's okay we'll lay off 50 which will save about 1.5 million +/- and we'll disguise this "new" idea (btw came from England in 1800's) with a 1 million dollar grant and put 10 people on the street, walkin' around.

Let's hope the officers know how to run like mountain goats on a hillside with cloven hooves.....fast!!
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:21 pm 
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andi03
F L I N T O I D

quote:
Dave Starr schreef:
One officer, alone, on foot, patrolling at night is going to be very dangerous. Driving to a particular area, then walking along a block may help; I hope so. There are some parts of Flint, including those within walking distance of my home, that I won't drive through at night without having something on my hip.

What would help would be enough officers on the force so the majority of them don't get called to a single incident. I'd like to see the same officers in the same area all the time, so they'd get to know the people that live there & the people could know them. Patrolling the same area all the time would enable the officers to know who the good people and the bad people are.


Dave there are people that barricade themselves in like I have never seen before off of Atherton and VanSlyke...sheesh.
Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:22 pm 
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back again
F L I N T O I D

1 officer walking alone, in a known "hood" area at midnight?????? has anyone seen the size of some of these thugs? i think people need to understand that although police officers are "ready to rock and roll" anytime, thugs generally attack in groups. this plan sounds like suicide. if i was an officer (and remember there are female and smaller statured male officers) i'd simply refuse to work certain areas.

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Post Tue Feb 23, 2010 10:50 pm 
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twotap
F L I N T O I D

Like Howard Estates perhaps?? Laughing good to see your finally on board.

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Post Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:49 am 
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvBLKGE2t7s&feature=related

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Post Wed Feb 24, 2010 10:56 am 
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back again
F L I N T O I D

no no 2tap, wrong assumption again. i have always been on the side of law and order. regarding howard estates, i still walk and ride my bike trough there when home. there are police in flint who through working around and talking to residents in those types of places have earned respect simply by talking to people in a friendly manner. rutherford was a master at that. my point was those types of communities are not 100% evil as you believe. you and those with your built-in assumptions couldn't handle that type of work in the daytime. that would be a dangerous situation. as to one officer patrolling in those types of places at night alone, i've never stated it should be done. hell, honestly i would feel like a target especially with a uniform and no partner.
i wouldn't do it. actually, most of the bad-guy stuff happens between 2a.m. and 6a.m.!! who's going to patrol then?

_________________
even a small act of goodness may be a tiny raft of salvation across the treacherous gulf of sin, but one who drinks the wine of selfishness, and dances on the little boat of meaness, sinks in the ocean of ignorance.
P.Y.
Post Wed Feb 24, 2010 1:22 pm 
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