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Topic: STATE TAKEOVER-FLINT PUBLIC SCHOOLS
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ronald barry robinson
F L I N T O I D

Is a state takeover of Flint Public Schools imminent? Flint schools in crisis again. Recent reports suggest that the Flint school system is facing yet another crisis. There has been so many problems in the Flint schools system one can hardly keep track of its failures. Now, this time around there is a projected $20 million dollar deficit. It's time for the State of Michigan to immediately take-over this disfunctional and mis-managed school system. It's apparent and obvious that this system and its leadership cannot manage itself professionally, ethically or morally. The state should send in monitors to find out why so many children are bing suspended and dropping out of its schools. The state should also conduct audits to find out where all the money has gone and is going. Is there another "Career Alliance" like scandal looming. Is this another case of more fox's in the Hen House?
Post Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:22 pm 
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squash
F L I N T O I D


quote:
recent reports


What are you talking about?


quote:
It's apparent and obvious that this system and its leadership cannot manage itself professionally, ethically or morally.


Who are you talking about?


quote:
why so many children are bing suspended and dropping out of its schools


Have you asked the students?
People are awful quick to blame schools and teachers for our community's problems. (see Adam Ford)
This is an irresponsible post. Ronald you need some specifics.
Post Sun Feb 17, 2008 7:57 pm 
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D

quote:
squash schreef:

quote:
recent reports

People are awful quick to blame schools and teachers for our community's problems. (see Adam Ford)


There is a lot of blame to go around. Maybe next year I will be able to try and be more of a solution other than just being on the facilities advisory committee.

Overall I think most public schools and perhaps even the majority of private schools in America are not as good as they should be. I think governments, school emplyees and the general public and students deserve a lot of the blame for this.

For the record I do think Flint schools have suffered from some poor leadership. I do support Linda Thompson and understand she can't fix the past overnight.

If it makes you feel better you will probably be seeing my name on the ballot and if you ever see me in debates I will probably go on the offensive because I am not one of the people to merely sit back and complain and hide behind an anonymous screen name.

_________________
Adam Ford
Post Sun Feb 17, 2008 9:15 pm 
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squash
F L I N T O I D

Anonymity is part of the charm of these forums. I have neither abused nor "hid" behind my anonymity, but I prefer not to reveal who I am in "real life." If that's ok with you.
I assume that you mean that you will be vying for a seat on the Board of Education. I wish you luck.
While I would prefer not to reveal what I do you can rest assured that I have been doing much more than sitting back and complaining.
Each of the past four Superintendents have brought positive things to the district. I have supported all of them. If any one of them would have been given the opportunity to implement their plans WITHOUT all the in-fighting and meddling from the outside we would be much better off. Maybe you can be the voice on the Board that allows the Superintendent to do what they think is the right thing for the district.
Post Sun Feb 17, 2008 10:47 pm 
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ronald barry robinson
F L I N T O I D

I have never hid behind a screen name or anything else.If I have something to say good or bad about a problem, or person I voice my opinion, everyone has an opinion. That's the good thing about Freedom of Speech. What's missing in this dialogue/forum is our children's futures and that is what I speak too. Those so-called grown-ups that were elected and hired to administer and teach have let the children and the system down. Most of them (administrators, teachers) have there education, homes, retirement accounts, futures, they're comfortable. But they are leaving generations of our precious resources (our children) to failures and uncertain futures and that's un-exceptable. Enough of trying to blame failures in education on the backs of the children. They need direction and guidance, after-all they are kids. The teachers were hired to teach, then damn it, teach, the administrators were hired to administrator, then damn it administer. Either lead, follow or get out of the way. I've always believed that if you won't stand for something, you won't stand for anything.
Post Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:48 am 
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squash
F L I N T O I D

Think back. Try to remember those people in your life who encouraged you to do well in school. Now pretend you never met them.
How many elementary schools did you go to? How many different houses did you live in by the time you were 12? Imagine you moved 5 times by the time you were 12, which means you were in 4 maybe 5 schools before you got to middle school.
Now imagine you are poor and black. By the time your about ten years old you can start to sense that people aren't expecting much from you and it hurts.
Now you're an average Flint kid.
These aren't excuses these are the facts of life for Flint school children. Every day hundreds of teachers come to Flint to be with these kids and they are called failures. NCLB calls us failures. They publish our MEAP scores next to Grand Blanc's Davison's Flushing's and allow readers to form their own opinions about what's happening in Flint. Charter schools put up billboards run television and radio ads luring kids away from public schools, then bounce them right back if things don't go well. Meanwhile the charters are scoring about the same as the publics on standardized tests. Adam, with all due respect, I'd like to see the staff you'd hire to replace all of us. Where are the dynamos that are going to walk away from from their 140k/yr corporate gig to turnaround our schools. Better yet I'd like to see the staff of the highest performing school in Grand Blanc swap positions with the lowest performing school in Flint or Beecher. Then we'll see if it's still the teacher's fault. If it bears out that I was doing a crappy job then you won't have to fire me. I'll leave voluntarily. By the way Adam, those 'socialist' programs you rail against are feeding kids daily. Some kids are getting 3 meals a day at school. If not for your prescious tax dollars they would be living on chips and pop. So, on their behalf, thank you.
Post Mon Feb 18, 2008 6:45 pm 
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ronald barry robinson
F L I N T O I D

Squash you're still missing the point. If we continue to look for excuses or make excuses for the failures of the Flint Public Schools we will never achieve the high standards in education that our children deserve. There will continue to be high rates of drop-outs. This drop-out rate is just not with children of color it involves all races. I take exception to the fact that african americans are always singled out for the blame game. I take exception that many administrators/teachers don't live in the city. But thats there choice. If I had my way anyone receiving a paycheck from the Flint Public Schools or the city would work in the city of Flint. Perhaps then there would be more accountability and efforts to understand the dynamics of this city and properly educate our children.
Post Mon Feb 18, 2008 10:17 pm 
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squash
F L I N T O I D

Maybe I'm too thick to see it. You're point (and Adam's) appears to be that there is somebody out there who can do it better than us. Who are they? You say it's time for the state to take over. What will the state be able to accomplish that we haven't? (is Ed Kurtz available)
Post Tue Feb 19, 2008 6:38 am 
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ronald barry robinson
F L I N T O I D

What can the state do? The State of Michigan can Demand professionalism and accountability in all sectors from the Superintendant all the way down to the janitors. Don't get me wrong there are alot of good teachers in the Flint School System. But there are alot of bad teachers as well. The bad ones need to be targeted, evaluated and fired. The school systems know who these deadbeat teachers are. I know about protectionists unions etc, etc, but this problem is bigger than that.
Post Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:44 am 
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D

Some board members more interested in power & having things done their way.
Some administrators more interested in procedures than education.
Unions that protect the incompetent and demand more at every contract.
Bad teachers that just put in their time.
Parents that see school as a baby sitting service.


AND

Kids that see no future. Their life is the hood, and they see no way out.

_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.

Pushing buttons sure can be fun.

When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.

Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Post Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:12 am 
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federales1
F L I N T O I D

My two cents on the Flint and Beecher districts. The conditions that the children in the poorer districts come from are an issue that needs to be addressed. This is a political hot potato but it's a serious issue.. Many of those kids don't have a chance well before they get to school. Unfortunately, the teachers are put in the difficult position of trying to teach children coming from often horrible circumstances, compared to what we would deem normal. This sets teachers in these districts up to fail and trying to compare Grand Blanc's district with Beecher or Flint on the basis of MEAP scores is, well, ludicrous to say the least. Using that data is simply no fair comparison. I'll even go so far as to say that most of the teachers at, say, Grand Blanc would be overwhelmed in Flint or Beecher. It's a cosmically different environment.
I should also add that poor does not mean uneducable. I'm trying to point out that this is much more a social issue than an issue of the quality of the educators.
Post Wed May 21, 2008 7:30 pm 
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D


quote:
Squash you're still missing the point. If we continue to look for excuses or make excuses for the failures of the Flint Public Schools we will never achieve the high standards in education that our children deserve. There will continue to be high rates of drop-outs. This drop-out rate is just not with children of color it involves all races.


You've got to watch Statements like that. If you actually find the problem and try to discuss it. You'll be told you don't know what you're talking about or that the Solution is basis on Opinion! Or that there is no such thing as good or bad it is all in the way you see it.

Which fortunately for most people. It not true. There is such a thing as Right and Wrong. Priniciples can, and should be taught, then should be followed and upheld.

Unions never protect bad teachers. Administrations and Management fail to do their jobs properly allowing for good representation by UNions winning the arguement.
Post Thu May 22, 2008 7:31 am 
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D

quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:


Unions never protect bad teachers. Administrations and Management fail to do their jobs properly allowing for good representation by UNions winning the arguement.


Try to get rid of a bad teacher & see how hard the union fights to keep them.

_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.

Pushing buttons sure can be fun.

When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.

Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Post Thu May 22, 2008 7:43 am 
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federales1
F L I N T O I D

quote:
Dave Starr schreef:

Try to get rid of a bad teacher & see how hard the union fights to keep them.

I have no doubt that there are some terrible teachers out there. I had a couple when I was in school and I remember them quite well, considering my advanced age. (That's a joke)
What I can tell you is that competent teachers know who the bad ones are and have no sympathy for them. The Union will make sure that teachers are not arbitrarily fired, but in my experience do not "protect" them.
My point is that if you take teacher A and put them with students B you will get a different result. If anyone thinks otherwise they are fooling themselves.
Post Thu May 22, 2008 8:57 am 
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D

Why do people get mad at those that do their job well?

When an attorney gets a dirt bag off because proper procedure wasn't followed. Is it the Attorney's fault that won or the people that tried to convict him that didn't do their job correctly?

You people that keep blaming Unions for doing their jobs! That just doesn’t make any rational sense! Unions only represent and make sure Management follows due process for discipline in the contract between labor and Management. When you find that Management failed once again to do their job correctly, YOU BLAME THE UNION!

I don't get it? Why wouldn’t you blame the people that tried to fire them without following the procedure outlined in the contract. It is Managements job to discipline. When they fail, Why do you blame the Union? Employees only do what they are allowed to do!

I can guarantee you that there is nothing in any contract between any Union or Management that says Management cannot fire an employee for not doing their job. The problem comes in when Management doesn’t fire someone by following the agreement they made with labor.

Same argument with Gun Control. Instead of Blaming the Criminal they blame the Gun! Put the blame on the people that deserve it, or rather, the ones that didn't do their jobs!

The thing that many people try to argue is the Union Shouldn’t have to defend the dirt Bag. Well, Unfortunately the LAW disagrees with those folks. The Federal ruling is that the if you’re paying Union Dues. You deserve the best representation the Union has to prove. NOTHING LESS! If the Union doesn’t provide that representation that the Union member paid for. The Union, can and will be sued! This happens all the time.

That fact that a teacher or employee is a dirt bag is not problem. The Problem is if Management is follwoing the contract to correct the employee. We have way too many people in management and leadership positions that cannot handle the pressure. But claim they are worth Big bucks for the decsions they make. LOL I always get a kick out that arguement.
Post Thu May 22, 2008 9:19 am 
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