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Topic: Huckabee campaigning for 23% sales tax

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Adam
F L I N T O I D

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-salestax24dec24,0,2218196.story?coll=la-home-nation

WASHINGTON -- Mike Huckabee, one of the most conservative Republicans in the 2008 presidential race, has embraced one of the most radical ideas on the campaign trail: a plan to abolish all federal income and payroll taxes and replace them with a single 23% national sales tax.

The idea -- dubbed the "fair tax" by proponents -- has been a political asset for Huckabee; its well-organized backers have helped catapult him from the back of the presidential pack to its top tier.

Sales tax proponents have tapped into seething voter hostility toward the Internal Revenue Service to become a below-the-radar political force, popping up at campaign events and candidate forums in Iowa and elsewhere.

The efforts on Huckabee's behalf by sales tax advocates helped spur his surprise second-place showing in an August Iowa straw poll -- the breakthrough that marked the beginning of his rise in the state and nationwide.

He is the only major presidential candidate to make the idea central to his campaign. "The first thing I'd love to do as president: Put a 'going out of business' sign on the Internal Revenue Service," he said at one debate.

Some wonder, however, whether his embrace of the plan eventually could turn into a liability.

The sales tax proposal has been around for years but languished on the fringes of practical politics and policy. Tax professionals generally regard the idea as impractical, regressive and even "crackpot," as one critic puts it.

It has gone nowhere in Congress. The 2005 Presidential Advisory Panel on Federal Tax Reform soundly rejected the idea. And many politicians shy away from it because it is easy for opponents to portray it as a huge tax increase -- as Democrats did in a 2006 Senate race in South Carolina.

The front-runner, Republican Jim DeMint, faced an unexpectedly stiff contest because of his support for a national sales tax. "DeMint wants an extra 23% on nearly everything -- gas, food, clothing," one Democratic ad said.

DeMint responded that his position was being misrepresented, but he still suffered a sharp decline in the polls. He won in the end, but what many thought would be a cakewalk for him turned into a cliffhanger.

Grover Norquist, a conservative activist who, as head of Americans for Tax Reform, pushed candidates to take a no-tax-hike pledge, said promoting a national sales tax in the presidential election would be "political poison."

Still, the proposal inspires grass-roots passion, in large part because it would replace or abolish the Internal Revenue Service, one of the most hated federal agencies and a symbol of intrusive government in some conservative circles.

Among the early advocates of a national sales tax were members of the Church of Scientology, a group that battled the IRS for years to gain recognition as a legitimate religious institution eligible for tax-exempt status. Church leaders backed the establishment of Citizens for an Alternative Tax System in 1990 to advance the cause of replacing the income tax with a national sales tax.

Eventually, the church won tax-exempt status and the group faded. But the issue was taken up by another group, Americans for Fair Taxation -- better known as Fairtax.org -- founded in 1995 by a group of Texas millionaires.

Proponents of a national sales tax say it would be an improvement over the current system because it would increase the incentive to save, by taxing money spent instead of money earned.

Also, the proposal would rid the tax code of its myriad loopholes and would free taxpayers and businesses from the time-consuming, often costly task of preparing annual tax returns.

"What we would do with the fair tax is to eliminate all the taxes on productivity, which means you could earn anything you want," Huckabee said. "You wouldn't be penalized for saving, earning, for having a capital gain, making an investment."

Huckabee and Fairtax.org call for a 23% tax on virtually all purchases in place of federal income taxes, as well as payroll taxes to fund Social Security and Medicare.

To ease the effect on the poor, they propose a "prebate" -- a monthly cash payment to every family -- to cover sales taxes on spending up to the federal poverty level.
Post Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:06 pm 
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Adam
F L I N T O I D

For the record I think Ron Paul's plan is much better. Let people help themselves instead of our governments taking half of everyone's money so governments can help everyone and help other countries protect their borders while we forget about our own.

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Post Wed Dec 26, 2007 5:09 pm 
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Dave Starr
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quote:
Adam schreef:
For the record I think Ron Paul's plan is much better. Let people help themselves instead of our governments taking half of everyone's money so governments can help everyone and help other countries protect their borders while we forget about our own.


Not to mention the bureaucracy eating up 80% of the revenues as "overhead".

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Post Wed Dec 26, 2007 6:09 pm 
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D

It seems to me Ron Paul is gaining lots of mo jo!


quote:
Adam schreef:
For the record I think Ron Paul's plan is much better. Let people help themselves instead of our governments taking half of everyone's money so governments can help everyone and help other countries protect their borders while we forget about our own.

_________________
Flint Michigan Resident, Tax Payer, Flint Nutt - Local REALTOR - Activist. www.FlintTown.com
Post Wed Dec 26, 2007 10:03 pm 
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andi03
F L I N T O I D

****To ease the effect on the poor, they propose a "prebate" -- a monthly cash payment to every family -- to cover sales taxes on spending up to the federal poverty level.****

The government is gonna pay me? Without me wanting it or needing it, sounds communistic/socialistic....hmmm.

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Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:10 am 
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Steve Myers
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I don't understand why so many people are against a fair tax?? I hate paying taxes!!

I would love to pay a fair, consumption or a nation sales tax!

Most people do not know how much taxes they actually pay. I didn't know until I became self employed.

I thought it would be great to retire from the Army and work for myself.

Tell what I learn, you still work for someone, the IRS!

I have to fork over money quarterly and it sucks!!!

Especially this year, because I did not make as much as I made last year, but I have to pay quarterly taxes on last years earnings!

No big deal, I will get it back in April, with no stinking interest.

On top of that they tax my retirement to boot!

THE IRS SUCKS! I would rather give my tax money to people on the street.

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Steve Myers
Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:31 am 
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andi03
F L I N T O I D

And with the monthly prebate the payments from the government are going to be on time? This is the thing that irks me the most about this is the prebate, to be honest.

The local gov. cannot handle child support on either end in a timely manner.

Why would the government have to hand out prebates, if they think that their system is the proverbial "all that and a bag of chips"? When you start handing money out to people simply for existing in any country a fine line is crossed and there are unintended consequences mentally to a society.

Other than that I am for a "fair" tax....

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Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 9:49 am 
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FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D

Perhaps someone could explain to me how any tax, no matter how simple, no matter how fair, will result in the elimination of the IRS? I can envision a smaller IRS, but not a non-existent one. Someone will still have to enforce the tax because not matter how simple or fair people still are going to try to evade it.

I'm fast approaching the point where any candidate who looks me in the eye and speaks the truth will get my vote. I was starting to like Huckabee until he came out with his no IRS pledge. Ron Paul..."No tax on tips"...yeah, right. Methinks I'll quit charging for my services and just take tips, which somehow magically will be pretty darn close to my old fees.

Steve...I agree wholeheartedly about hating to pay taxes, but the IRS is the police, not the one who makes the laws. Direct some of that anger at Congress.

Finally, Congress wields it's power and repays favors through the tax code. I don't believe you will see true tax reform in my lifetime (I'm approaching 50 years old, 35 paying taxes.)
Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:30 pm 
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Opinionated
F L I N T O I D

FlintConservative,

You should look into the Libertarian party. Sounds like that's the way you're leaning. You're just a tad older than me so you should know that China doesn't pay federal taxes. Look into their government.

You and Steve are definitely in the vast majority - we all hate paying taxes. Most times in America, we get taxed two, three times on one item! It's a huge rip-off, yet most people think they are cornered into paying them.

Look into Libertarians. I'm not a full-fledged, right-winged Libertarian, but definitely one. The government has their hand in way too much - and we should be able to voice our concerns and do something about it!
Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:51 pm 
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FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D

quote:
Opinionated schreef:
FlintConservative,

You should look into the Libertarian party. Sounds like that's the way you're leaning. You're just a tad older than me so you should know that China doesn't pay federal taxes. Look into their government.

You and Steve are definitely in the vast majority - we all hate paying taxes. Most times in America, we get taxed two, three times on one item! It's a huge rip-off, yet most people think they are cornered into paying them.

Look into Libertarians. I'm not a full-fledged, right-winged Libertarian, but definitely one. The government has their hand in way too much - and we should be able to voice our concerns and do something about it!



I believe that most liberals are more socialist than they would like to admit and that most conservatives are more libertarian than they would like to admit.

Having said that, this is still a two party system and, imho, a vote (in a general election) for anything other than a Democrat or Republican is a wasted vote.
Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:53 pm 
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D

If you take away the federal reserve tax inflation tax, interest tax, department of education, stop policing the world, protect our borders so we would be safe and not need the vast homeland security department etc etc we could get rid of the income tax. If people were still anal and wanted to keep too many government programs we could impose constitutional tariffs instead of havin the government use us as slaves. I'm supportive of free trade but I'd rather be free before we have that.

I've read that if we went back to the size of government we had before "free the world" Bush took over we could eliminate the personal income tax.

I think the personal income tax is only about 30% of government revenues. We could immediately do that if we took back the Treasury. The United States government does not own the Federal reserve. It is owned by private banks.

The other option is we can continue towards socialism and bankruptcy. In 40 years we won't even be able to afford a military.

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Adam Ford
Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 7:41 pm 
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Ryan Eashoo
F L I N T O I D

I vote for a flat tax!

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Flint Michigan Resident, Tax Payer, Flint Nutt - Local REALTOR - Activist. www.FlintTown.com
Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 8:17 pm 
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Adam Ford
F L I N T O I D

I vote for no income tax. If the tax happy liberals must have one then we should tax imports.

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Adam Ford
Post Thu Dec 27, 2007 11:23 pm 
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Dave Starr
F L I N T O I D

quote:
Ryan Eashoo schreef:
I vote for a flat tax!


How much did you make?
SEND IT TO US!!

Laughing Laughing

_________________
I used to care, but I take a pill for that now.

Pushing buttons sure can be fun.

When a lion wants to go somewhere, he doesn’t worry about how many hyenas are in the way.

Paddle faster, I hear banjos.
Post Fri Dec 28, 2007 8:39 am 
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