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Topic: Flint Police had no reason to pump 5 bullets into her?
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D

You got a three inch knife and I got a 26 inch billy club. I'm beating the crap out you before you even get within reach! I'm the attacker now. Because I've got the superior weapon. And that's just with minor combat training.
Post Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:26 pm 
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Bossman
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[quote="moxie229"]There are, I'm sure at least 75% of this cities police officers could have came up with a way to subdue this drunk. Even if they had to do some damage to this gal it would be better than death. Unfortunatly it sounds like she got some of the chicken ones, or maby some of the ones that just find it easier to take this direction. This would not have happened to Jack Web...[/quote]

Moxie, Jack Webb was on TV. This is real life. If an officer in that situation chooses an option other than his gun he is asking for trouble. If it comes out good he is lucky! I don't think you'll find a cop in Flint that would call me a chicken, and I'm shootin'! Then I'm going home and kissing my kids and my wife and thanking God I didn't get hurt. It's better to be judged by twelve than carried by six.
Post Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:13 pm 
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D

[quote="Ted Jankowski"]You got a three inch knife and I got a 26 inch billy club. I'm beating the crap out you before you even get within reach! I'm the attacker now. Because I've got the superior weapon. And that's just with minor combat training.[/quote]

Ted, you may become the agressor and may ultimately win the battle, but I guarantee you'll be cut. I'm not interested in being cut. Refer back to my earlier post and see if those cuts look appealing to you. Remember, that officer was trained in hand to hand combat and was considerably larger than his attacker. He was confident he could win and ultimately did, but.......
Post Sat Jan 19, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Ponycar
F L I N T O I D

Ted,You better knock me out with your 26 inch billy club on the 1st swing cause if you don't, you're gonna be slashed bad by my razor sharp 3 inch pocket knife. I gurantee I'll reach you from 26 inches.
Post Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:11 pm 
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Opprimo
F L I N T O I D

quote:
Ponycar schreef:
Ted,You better knock me out with your 26 inch billy club on the 1st swing cause if you don't, you're gonna be slashed bad by my razor sharp 3 inch pocket knife. I gurantee I'll reach you from 26 inches.



Well put... Baton Vs. 3 in knife: You will break my arm most likely, only my hand if I successfully anticipate the hit, but I will put you down as you recoil to hit me the 2nd time. There are no less than a dozen places on the body, not covered by body armor, where a 3 inch knife could/would be lethal. Police officers are trained in hand to hand, life & death combat techniques. They realize that an armed drunk (unreasonable) is far more dangerous than an armed criminal who is in control of their faculties.

In this day & age, it is a sad thing, but i'm sure one of the first thing to go through those cops mind was "What will CNN say about this shoot" not... "Is this a life & death shoot"... says a lot, but also says it was a clean shoot.

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Post Sat Jan 19, 2008 8:44 pm 
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moxie229
F L I N T O I D

Is it realy that easy to kill, rather than protect & serve? The choices are many for the cop if he is willing to take the time to think out the situation. Granted I was not there, and I dont know if there were ten cops, or only one, but dam I could throw rocks or something at her, and run around until she got tired, there for waiting for backup. Hell run her over with a car, shoot her in the feet legs something. All I'm saying, and again I wasent there, but come on something better than death for being drunk with a knife. But you go ahead, and argue for untraind police officers.
Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:48 am 
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D

quote:
Bossman schreef:
Ted, you may become the aggressor and may ultimately win the battle, but I guarantee you'll be cut. I'm not interested in being cut. Refer back to my earlier post and see if those cuts look appealing to you. Remember, that officer was trained in hand to hand combat and was considerably larger than his attacker. He was confident he could win and ultimately did, but.......


Hey, I saw those. But, I'm doubting those were caused by a drunk lady who was having trouble walking straight. I would defiantly buy into something like this happening. Had I been the one carrying the knife and attacking someone.

But, I WASN'T I would have expected them to shoot me. Prior Military, 6ft tall and 250lbs. Sure shoot my ass when I don't comply! I've lost the knife I took away from a drunk in a bar down in Jacksonville. He didn't understand that half a pool cue would mess up his day. In another brawl I started in NC one guy thought a broken bottle would do him better too. Nope! The worst out of the Many brawls I've been in (I started most) when someone pulled a weapon (knife or bottle) I always won. Mostly because if someone pulled a knife or a bottle I went right for a pool stick and became the aggressor. Interesting that was done without a gun. The worst that happened to me in any of those was I sprained my wrist in one, left my knuckles bloody in others. My glasses where broken in another. Then the one outside "The Brown Bagger" my shirt was ripped and I scrapped up my elbow.

Now, that was years ago. I was in top physical shape.

I in no way claim that something like what happened to that officer in the pictures is not a good possibility. Only that that Judgment used in this case. Based on witness testimonies may not have been the best route to go. Did officers follow procedure! Absolutely! They followed it to the letter! So in every case your telling me officers follow procedures to the letter? They have to use judgment. I could reference many other situations where Flint Police procedures are not followed to the letter and nothing happens. Especially when dealing with recovered stolen property that never makes it back to its rightful owner. I remember some stuff ending up an officer down their at the department. It was stolen property. It even made the Flint Journal.

Had one or two officers not followed procedure and disarmed the woman and arrested her. Under good leadership. Their supervisor should have written them up for not following procedure. Then turned around at the first opportunity promoted or recommended them for a commendation. If you don't understand why. I don't know that I have the time to explain it. It's what is called good Leadership and discipline.
Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 10:55 am 
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last time here
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you know ted, for every thing an officer has done that may be considered wrong, they have done many other things viewed as over and above the call of duty. we, in our neighborhood love our police officers. they respond instantaneously, are very thorough and know who the bad guys are. in that line of duty, they have to respond and cure the problem whatever that may be. they do this job day in and day out. just like us, they deal with normal everyday problems, spousal, children, relatives, kids grades, sickness and STILL have to waylay crime in a CITY!!! police are people too! now quite honestly, i'd love to have a "bossman" police officer if i ever have a problem with a bad guy......i just can't and will not say you are correct on this one. not too long ago i awoke at 5:a.m. to the sound of gunshots!!
i looked out the bedroom window and saw some clown running through the neighbors back yard toward the back fence. i hesitantly opened my back window and yelled "is there anyone out here?". i heard a weak "help me
i've been hit!". now bear in mind, something such as this has NEVER happened that close to me. i threw on some sweats and quietly went out my back door with my tokarev . i made my way to the front yard and there's a guy lying in my front yard. i called 911 and the police you think overreact were there in 2 minutes. they were very nice, very professional and in addition to "handling the situation" they also got the old guy (me)
to calm down. i'm sorry but i cannot agree with you on this one.
send me a "bossman" any day!!! Wink


Last edited by last time here on Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:17 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:07 pm 
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Biggie9
F L I N T O I D

quote:
twotap schreef:
Suppose not only was she drunk and dressed like this but she had her snake with her. Confused Shocked


just where is that dude's hand?

yowza!

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Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 12:12 pm 
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Ponycar
F L I N T O I D

Ted, When you were a barroom brawler, what were the chances that you would be cut, slashed or stabbed by the person with the knife or broken bottle ? For a police officer, the chances are more than he or she wants to take. I myself don't want to be the officer to get a slash across my face because I let a knife wielding subject who was making slashing motions at me get too close by trying to use my baton. I'm not interested in brawling with someone. I want to minimize injury to myself and go home to my family at the end of the day.

Moxie, Shooting someone in the leg is deadly force since it can inflict death or serious bodily harm.If I recall, an NFL star recently died after being shot in the leg during a home invasion. Throwing rocks, and run around until she got tired ? Are you kidding me ? Take time and think out the situation ? Again the officers must make split second decisions on a situation that is rapidly escalating.
You comments are a perfect example of that of a monday morning quarterback.
Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 3:43 pm 
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FlintConservative
F L I N T O I D

quote:
moxie229 schreef:
The choices are many for the cop if he is willing to take the time to think out the situation. Granted I was not there, and I dont know if there were ten cops, or only one, but dam I could throw rocks or something at her, and run around until she got tired, there for waiting for backup. Hell run her over with a car, shoot her in the feet legs something. All I'm saying, and again I wasent there, but come on something better than death for being drunk with a knife. But you go ahead, and argue for untraind police officers.


Taking the time to think out the situation is the job of monday morning quarterbacks.

Taking that time when someone is rushing you and waving a knife at you is a good way to get yourself killed.
Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 6:51 pm 
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Gumby
F L I N T O I D

So lets say the cops beat the shit out of her with their batons instead of shooting her, you apologists will start bitching that they used excessive force because her arm was broken. Cops can't win with you ass holes.

Why don't they just shoot the knife out of her hand? or shoot her in the legs? You guys watch to many movies. As a police officer you are trained to aim for center of mass because the second you try to get fancy with your shooting you miss and hit an innocent bystander.


I am just so sick of idiots like Ted Jankowski there, bitching about the crime rate in Flint being so high one minute and then begins bitching when the police do their job the next.

Just see if your baton stops a doped up moron with a knife. You do realize that people who are drunk or high on drugs tend not to react to pain the same way a normal person does. I guarantee the person with the knife will win.
Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 8:43 pm 
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moxie229
F L I N T O I D

From that point of view, I guess I was playing the part of a armchair QB, and I'll take that. Man I just dont like to see somebody killed, and I'm not implying anybody else dose eather.
Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:06 pm 
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D

See this is why it is so difficult to have any type of Intellegent conversation with People LIKE Gumby and LTH. First off. I never attacked BOSSMAN! I have never said what the Officers did was even wrong! THey followed procedure. But I guess reading the post isn't a requirement for actually commenting about it. I've discovered that that Neither Gumby or LTH wish to look past their nose at any situation. Flaming and blowing up seem to be what they are best at.

That is what happens when people are closed minded.

Nothing I've stated about what has happened in our Polic department is anything that hasn't already been reported in the Flint Journal! I just happen to have more inside information than most and will only elude to what has been published.

When I make comments about situations such as the shooting. I first look at what would the officers I look up to have done in those situations. What would I myself been capable of and where are the failings and how can those be changed. Is it policy, procedure, leadership? I touched on all and you didn't comment on any of those. You jumped to judgements not based anything on what was being discussed. HOW F*#KIN IGNORANT!

I never once said a thing about shooting someone in the leg. THat is asinine! Police should never do that. Always shoot to kill! Never anything else! Don't draw the weapon unless you intend to use it! I belive they should be using it more than they do. And they do spend too much time in situations that call for deadly force trying to not kill someone!

THis situation was so completely different! THere was no split second decsions. They were calling back for instructions! These were not even officers that were familiar with this area. Because of ignorant changes down at the police department. Officers who had more experience were not there.

Ya know, I'm just casting perils before swine. Even if I broke all the factors, that a five year old would need to figure it out. YOu still couldn't. Just as your the same people that think because someone lives in POverty or doesn't have a job at McDonalds they would commit crime. There is no rationalising with people who either can't understand or refuse to listen.

Back to my whole thing about posting comments as facts. When the actual facts disprove what they spouted.
Post Sun Jan 20, 2008 9:53 pm 
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last time here
Guest

flaming????? Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
man oh man!!! what a temper.... Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing
so, it wasn't a mistake then???
or, it was but it's the mayors fault?? Shocked Shocked

"casting perils before swine"?? is that a religious phrase?? Shocked

why you jumpin on me??????? jeees!!! Wink

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