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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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'Little girl' at Genesee County meeting was actually top MSHDA official
Print Ron Fonger | rfonger1@mlive.com By Ron Fonger
| rfonger1@mlive.com
on January 30, 2014 at 6:45 PM, updated January 31, 2014 at 9:05 AM
GENESEE COUNTY, MI -- A woman who the county board chairman dismissed in an interview after a public meeting as a "little girl" is the point person in the Michigan State Housing Development Authority for policy statements on blight.
County officials are still considering whether to back a $3 million line of credit that the Land Bank says it needs to carry out a massive demolition program with federal funds.
But backers of the proposal, including county Treasurer Deb Cherry, have scored one point in the debate with county board Chairman Jamie Curtis, who's among those questioning whether the county should pledge its full faith and credit to back the borrowing.
Curtis questioned Michele Wildman, director of special programs for the Michigan State Housing Development Authority, during a committee meeting Wednesday, Jan. 29, and later said he's relied on information from another MSHDA staffer, Roxanne Eaton, instead.
Curtis said after the meeting that information from Eaton "Trumps anything that little girl" said, and called Wildman "Somebody Deb (Cherry) found."
But a MSHDA spokeswoman said Thursday, Jan. 30, that Wildman speaks for the agency on such policy questions -- not just in the county, but statewide.
"Michele is the point person for all issues related to blight," said MSHDA spokeswoman Katie Bach.
One issue discussed Wednesday was whether there was a requirement under the Hardest Hit Blight Program for the Land Bank to pay demolition contractors before seeking reimbursement from the state, which administers the federal funds.
Officials now agree that there is no such requirement, but Cherry and Land Bank Executive Director Doug Weiland have said the line of credit is still necessary in order to pay contractors in a timely way.
Wildman told Curtis that although the line of credit isn't required by the program, it is considered a "best practice." |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:39 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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"Curtis said after the meeting that information from Eaton "Trumps anything that little girl" said, and called Wildman "Somebody Deb (Cherry) found."
But a MSHDA spokeswoman said Thursday, Jan. 30, that Wildman speaks for the agency on such policy questions -- not just in the county, but statewide.
"Michele is the point person for all issues related to blight," said MSHDA spokeswoman Katie Bach. "
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Ellenberg, who defeated Curtis in the Democratic Primary, used this statement to allege Curtis was a "misogynist ". Even MSHDA was upset with this sexist comment . I can imagine Treasurer Deb Cherry wasn't happy either.
Oh and both Curtis and Wilman are white. |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:43 am |
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BillPayer
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
Bill Payer
quote:
Here's what I don't get. What historical references from the days of slavery directly connect to black females acting childish? Calling someone honey or chief have a more direct connection to discrimination over derogatory wording than calling the mayor childish.
Disrespectful? Sure it was. But this has come after months of both sides disregarding the other. If these statements were said at another time i don't believe the pastors would have spoken out. I suppose that is the critical part for me. Also, was she offended? Why are people speaking on her behalf?
Anyway, great info on here.
You don't understand because you choose not to understand the power of words. People fight all the time over disrespectful actions and speech. Were these "fighting words"? No , but they also disrespected all of those who voted for her. Also, Kincaid threatened her like he was her boss,or overseer, with teaching her discipline. Sounds like "plantation politics" to me.
You seem to forget that council is also calling her corrupt and villifying her without any proof whatsoever, just their dislike for Stanley and Gilcreast.
Council has an agenda greater than choosing the Trash Vendor. Money spent on these court cases are going to be problematic, but maybe hat is part of the reason.
She is fighting to disregard any power they are supposed to have. She is acting like their boss. By attempting to take ownership of all power and remove the checks and balances she is acting like a dictator. How can you mention people acting like someone's boss and not put that on the mayor first? There are no plantain politics.. the mayor is just as guilty if not more for doing the same things.
Again though, there is no connection to racism here. You keep making the point of the connections between black religion and politics as well as other groups sticking up for an individual. But what about the connection to racism? |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:28 am |
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BillPayer
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
"Curtis said after the meeting that information from Eaton "Trumps anything that little girl" said, and called Wildman "Somebody Deb (Cherry) found."
But a MSHDA spokeswoman said Thursday, Jan. 30, that Wildman speaks for the agency on such policy questions -- not just in the county, but statewide.
"Michele is the point person for all issues related to blight," said MSHDA spokeswoman Katie Bach. "
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Ellenberg, who defeated Curtis in the Democratic Primary, used this statement to allege Curtis was a "misogynist ". Even MSHDA was upset with this sexist comment . I can imagine Treasurer Deb Cherry wasn't happy either.
Oh and both Curtis and Wilman are white.
I'm not sure why race was real amended to this comment. That wasn't every intended to be my point really. I think the leaders in the black community really pushed her to victory and are standing by her side. But the claims of racism are what really makes me mad here. I don't see it, and you don't really seem to be defending it well, however you do accept it as fact.
I do see there is a history of groups sticking up for others civil rights. However calling someone a baby and saying they are acting childish are once again different playing fields. For the pastors to speak out because it was said she was acting like a baby is still ridiculous for me. It's not that I'm not accepting the power of word.. it's that I'm not accepting their motives. They had to drum up the words to include racism so that they even had a leg to stand on for holding the conference. |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 10:54 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| You choose not to understand. |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 12:34 pm |
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BillPayer
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
You choose not to understand.
I will read over it again with an open mind. I choose to not blindly accept, that's all. You seem nice, definitely resourceful, and knowledgable so maybe there is just a disconnect. But at this point it almost seems like you're pushing an agenda just as much as they are. Many believe there were no racial connotation to Kincaid 's comments, and I don't see any solid evidence there was any intended or not.
Maybe I'm just ignorant, but it seems like you and the pastors are pushing towards a racism debate where one doesn't exist. Manufacturing that situation is pitting blacks against whites and deepens the racial divide. It works have been OK to keep it about respect, but they didn't happen. To see a racial connection, to me, implies you must be looking through a racist lense.
Let me just add, I truly do not believe you're an outright racist even if that's where my logic leads me. I don't mean to offend you. |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 1:04 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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DEATH OF THE WILLIE LYNCH SPEECH - Manu Ampim
manuampim.com/lynch_hoax1.html
excerpt:
Since 1995 there has been much attention given to a speech claimed to be delivered by a “William Lynch” in 1712. This speech has been promoted widely .
Also, many nineteenth century Black writers discussed the specific tactics of the white slaveowners and how they used Christianity to teach the enslaved Africans how to be docile and accept their slave status. The problem with African American and Black British revelry during the Christmas holidays and the blind acceptance of the master’s version of Christianity are no doubt major issues among Black people today. It is certain that both of these problems were initiated and perpetuated during slavery, and they require our immediate attention.
Many people who embrace the Willie Lynch myth have not studied the period of slavery, and have not read the major works or first-hand documents on this issue of African American slavery. Further, as indicated above, the Lynch hoax is so widespread that this fictional speech is amazingly used as required reading by some college instructors. While we are being misled by this fantasy, the real historical data is being ignored. For example, Kenneth Stampp in his important work on slavery in the American South, The Peculiar Institution (1956), uses the historical records to outline the 5 rules for making a slave:
Maintain strict discipline.
Instill belief of personal inferiority.
Develop awe of master’s power ( instill fear).
Accept master’s standards of “good conduct.”
Develop a habit of perfect dependence.[5] |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 2:46 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Maintain strict discipline.
Instill belief of personal inferiority.
Develop awe of master’s power ( instill fear).
Accept master’s standards of “good conduct.”
Develop a habit of perfect dependence.
Isn't that what the council, led by Kincaid is doing?
He stated she needed discipline.
Calling her a child needing discipline-isn't that designed to instill dominance over her?
Especially since he is the one who will mete out the discipline.
She is supposed to fear him because of his lengthy history in the council.
It's a "his way or the highway" attitude, but if she gives in to his demands, she will be rewarded for her "good conduct"
To continue to receive "good conduct" she must continue to depend upon his superior wisdom.
She must not continue to be a strong independent Black female. |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:08 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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This M-Live writer did not say what community she is from.
Mary Beth 2 days ago
As a two-term mayor and nine years on the Township Committee, and the only female serving at that time, who was the youngest of them all, I started and jumped in on some controversial stuff, but those guys knew better than to call me "child" or any other derogatory name, because they knew if they did, I would have embarrassed them so badly that they would never live it down. My father used to warn people that if they were going to talk to me like I was their parent, then they better be able to handle having an extra pissed-off daughter who held grudges and had an extensive and colorful vocabulary. I had the support of our local Ministerial Alliance, and I took guff from citizens, but, to my surprise, some of the gentlemen whose politics I did not share became some of my staunchest defenders, at least in terms of not talking that way to a woman. Someone who became a good friend started out being Mr. Nasty and telling me to "grow a set," to which I told him that I had bigger ones in my bra than he had in his pants. It all worked out. Mayor Weaver can't ignore little comments like this, because left unchecked, they will keep hammering her and start throwing in more and more insulting comments. It's not a bad thing to set the hard limits of what will be tolerated as comments. Let them just keep chattering behind her back; they'll do it anyway, but then it's just gossip. Flagrant disrespect of anyone sitting beside or near you on that dais is not helpful and it drags down the whole government with pointless personality BS. |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:49 pm |
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BillPayer
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
Maintain strict discipline.
Instill belief of personal inferiority.
Develop awe of master’s power ( instill fear).
Accept master’s standards of “good conduct.”
Develop a habit of perfect dependence.
Isn't that what the council, led by Kincaid is doing?
He stated she needed discipline.
Calling her a child needing discipline-isn't that designed to instill dominance over her?
Especially since he is the one who will mete out the discipline.
She is supposed to fear him because of his lengthy history in the council.
It's a "his way or the highway" attitude, but if she gives in to his demands, she will be rewarded for her "good conduct"
To continue to receive "good conduct" she must continue to depend upon his superior wisdom.
She must not continue to be a strong independent Black female.
You're forgetting that his comments were true. She acting like a dictator and responding childishly as I've mentioned unchallenged(?) before. |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 3:55 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Trump has given the White Hate groups and the haters a forum. Of the 290 comments on M-live about the Concerned Pastors story at least 95% were filled with racist comments and insults .For some reason, Kwame Kilpatrick, Michelle and Barack Obama are being bandied about. I guess the whole point is to show that Black leaders are by the virtue of their color untrustworthy and corrupt.
Here is one of the few supporting the Pastors.
TheStruggle 2 days ago
The Pastors held a press conference to let the senior Councilman Scott Kincaid who attacked and verbally insulted Mayor Dr. Karen Weaver with words that were hurtful not only to the African-American community, Weaver and many residents that may or may not have supported Mayor Weaver! The Conference wasn't about garbage, water, police, etc. However, it was about Kincaid's comments and his stance of "teaching" the Mayor a lesson like you would do for a CHILD! The notion of Church and State is not applicable because these were individuals citizens who happens to be Pastors! They demanded a public apology from Kincaid who works for the UAW Region 1D! Many retirees retired from the automobile industry and are OFFENDED with his comments! |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:13 pm |
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BillPayer
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
untanglingwebs schreef:
Trump has given the White Hate groups and the haters a forum. Of the 290 comments on M-live about the Concerned Pastors story at least 95% were filled with racist comments and insults .For some reason, Kwame Kilpatrick, Michelle and Barack Obama are being bandied about. I guess the whole point is to show that Black leaders are by the virtue of their color untrustworthy and corrupt.
Here is one of the few supporting the Pastors.
TheStruggle 2 days ago
The Pastors held a press conference to let the senior Councilman Scott Kincaid who attacked and verbally insulted Mayor Dr. Karen Weaver with words that were hurtful not only to the African-American community, Weaver and many residents that may or may not have supported Mayor Weaver! The Conference wasn't about garbage, water, police, etc. However, it was about Kincaid's comments and his stance of "teaching" the Mayor a lesson like you would do for a CHILD! The notion of Church and State is not applicable because these were individuals citizens who happens to be Pastors! They demanded a public apology from Kincaid who works for the UAW Region 1D! Many retirees retired from the automobile industry and are OFFENDED with his comments!
When race is brought into a situation by either party you open yourself for extreme ignorance. The only way I feel justified is my trying to understand why AA community may believe the comments were actually racist. I'm coming around to its a stretch, but certainly is not clear and you can't blame the people for thinking there's nothing to the racism claims
And btw it seems like at least 15% of those comments were Eric Mays (?) And they were not racist.
I suppose you so have a slant towards African Americans and against whites? Count the comments and they're not even close to 95%. You're seeing what you want to see, aren't you? Damn, I really didn't want to believe you were just wrong about the pastors. You're the one with the decided and closed mind. |
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Wed Oct 05, 2016 4:22 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| Who you are speaks so loudly I can't hear what you're saying. Ralph Waldo Emerson |
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Thu Oct 06, 2016 5:45 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Bill Payer
You are merely using the "broken record" technique, No matter what is said, you will counter with "but its not racist". You appear to be arguing that Kincaid has an absolute 1st amendment right to spew offensive, discriminatory and sexist rhetoric at Weaver.
I applaud the Concerned Pastors for the efforts at intervention to stop the marginalization of Flint's first Black Female Mayor. In my opinion they are acting appropriately to solve in an active capacity a societal inequity that has strong political consequences for the City of Flint. This blatantly demeaning and disrespectful demeanor towards the Mayor is detrimental to the establishment and maintenance of an administration that s progressive and efficient.
Bullying goes beyond the classroom and in this instance it is in the political arena. Scott kincaid and his cohorts on the council are blatantly attempting to disenfranchise her political office and render her powerless.
Last edited by untanglingwebs on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:34 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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In this case the Flint Journal, as part of the mainstream media, misrepresented the issues and contributed to the perception of Weaver as an unimportant minority of the weaker sex. This increased the number of racially tinged and derogatory comments on M-Live towards both Weaver and the Concerned Pastors.
This is not an issue of speech alone creating a "hostile environment". Remember that Kincaid rushed to sue on the behalf of council and then had to back up and get council approval. Could there be a hidden agenda or just a desire to get his way. Council is mad as hell" and determined to bully Weaver into submission.
In this white male dominated patriarchal society, Kincaid's remarks calling a grown, educated Black female child needing discipline, supports a belief system that marginalizes Weaver as a lesser sex minority who behaves in an unreasonable, silly or unsensible manner. That is both sexist and racist. It only reinforces old stereotypes of Black minorities as having lesser intelligence. Kincaid demonstrates with this demeanor a willingness to render Weaver powerless and unimportant.
Last edited by untanglingwebs on Thu Oct 06, 2016 9:49 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:53 am |
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