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Topic: Tolbert, Manoogian Mansion, detroit murders, cover-ups
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

http://www.ca6.uscourts.gov/opinions.pdf/13a0119p-06.pdf

Last edited by untanglingwebs on Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:43 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

In addition to deficiencies in DPD’s investigation of Greene’s murder, Plaintiffs
cite certain DPD promotions as evidence of Kilpatrick’s desire to stall the DPD
investigation. They claim Kilpatrick appointed Bully-Cummings as Chief of Police with
the expectation that she would be loyal to him, citing Bully-Cummings’s past assistance to Carlita Kilpatrick with obtaining a city vehicle and the text messages wherein Bully-Cummings appeared to be colluding with Kilpatrick on matters related to Brown’sremoval. Plaintiffs suggested that Lieutenant Brian Stair was promoted to head of the

DPD’s Internal Affairs section as a reward for allegedly sharing a memorandum by
No. 11-2501 Flagg, et al. v. City of Detroit, et al. Page 6
Brown—which discussed allegations against Kilpatrick’s EPU as well as the alleged
party—with Kilpatrick and his chief of staff, Christine Beatty. Plaintiffs also cited
Godbold’s suspicions that Lieutenant Tolbert, Deputy Police Chief Saunders, and
Assistant Police Chief Martin were promoted in exchange for hindering the Greene
murder investigation.
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:49 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

http://www.mlive.com/news/flint/index.ssf/2013/10/court_records_show_tie_with_ne.html
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:58 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

New Flint police chief denies detective's claims of Detroit cover-up

David Harris | dharris5@mlive.com By David Harris | dharris5@mlive.com
on October 14, 2013 at 5:00 PM, updated October 14, 2013 at 5:08 PM


FLINT, MI – Flint's new emergency manager said he was unaware the city's new police chief was the target of a lawsuit alleging he blocked a detective's efforts to solve the killing of an exotic dancer tied to a long-rumored party at the home of disgraced ex-Detroit mayor Kwame Kilpatrick.

Flint emergency manager Darnell Earley hired Detroit Deputy Police Chief James Tolbert last month to replace Alvern Lock, who resigned as Flint police chief. Tolbert started on Monday, Oct. 14.

Earley cited Tolbert's leadership style, confidence and experience in policing in an urban environment in hiring the 27-year veteran with Detroit police.

According to Gov. Rick Snyder's office, Tolbert was recruited for the Flint job by Rich Baird, Snyder's "transformational manager" whose job it is to fill important posts.

Earley said the Kilpatrick allegations did not come up during his discussions about Tolbert and that he is satisfied that the governor's office settled any outstanding concerns with Tolbert.

"Some of the specifics of (Tolbert's) work we're not discussed," he said.

Odell Godbold is suing Tolbert, the Detroit Police Department and two other Detroit police officials, accusing them of interfering with his investigation for political purposes. The lawsuit is currently on hold because of Detroit's bankruptcy.

Tolbert denied Goldbold's claims.

"That's not the case at all," he said. "I was in charge of homicide at the time and I totally during the time of the investigation was making sure that we absolutely made that investigation to the fullest."


Tolbert also said he investigates all crimes to the fullest.


Flint Police Officers Union President Kevin Smith said several of his members have raised concerns about Tolbert and claims that he blocked Godbold's investigation into the April 2003 killing of Tamara Greene.

Greene's family claims she was killed because she knew too much about the alleged party and that Kilpatrick and other Detroit officials worked to cover up her slaying.

A federal appeals court this year upheld a lower court's decision that there no evidence to support those claims. No officials have been charged with a cover up, including Kilpatrick, who was sentenced to 28 years in prison last week on corruption charges.

Smith said he is willing to look at Tolbert with a clean slate if Tolbert can provide strong leadership.

"We need a strong leader now," said Smith. "We need someone to come in to make this the great city it once was."

Flint officers have clashed with chiefs in recent past, voting "no confidence" against Flint police Chief Alvern Lock this year and former chief Gary Hagler in 2006.

Flint City Council President Scott Kincaid said he didn't have enough information to comment on the Greene investigation but said his issue with the hiring of Tolbert is the lack of community's input.


"The community should have some indication who is going to be the new chief so he can be vetted by the community," said Kincaid.
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:05 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

http://motorcitymuckraker.com/2013/10/16/state-hires-former-kwame-henchman-for-police-chief-job/
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:14 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

State hires former Kwame ‘henchman’ for police chief job

October 16, 20138 CommentsRead More



James TolbertJames Tolbert was deputy police chief in Detroit when he was promoted after allegedly hindering an investigation into the 2003 killing of exotic dancer Tamara “Strawberry” Greene.

He’s also at the center of a lawsuit that claims he and other top brass interfered with the probe in an attempt to stop police from looking deeper into the case immediately following allegations that Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick, who is now serving 28 years in prison for a racketeering scheme, was involved in the killing.

But that didn’t prevent Lansing, which has been outspokenly critical of Kilpatrick, from hiring Tolbert to become police chief of Flint, a city that is under state-controlled emergency management, like Detroit.

Tolbert started as police chief Monday and told MLive that he never impeded the investigation.

“That’s not the case at all,” he said. “I was in charge of homicide at the time and I totally during the time of the investigation was making sure that we absolutely made that investigation to the fullest.”

Tolbert was selected by the controversial Richard Baird, Snyder’s transformation manager who is paid by private funds and has been the point man for emergency manager appointments. Baird orchestrated the surreptitious hiring of Emergency Manager Kevyn Orr while the governor repeatedly misled the public about the prospect of bankruptcy.

Jamie Fields, a candidate for the Detroit Police Commission, said the state’s failure to properly vet Tolbert is a problem.

“Most progressive cities that hire a new police chief are not only more transparent, they involve the community, whether it be public forums, media, or panel discussions, not only to properly vet the candidate’s backgrounds but to compare various candidate’s policing philosophy,” Fields said. “However, the issue continues to be the governor’s paternalistic usurpation of largely minority cities by substituting his decisions of what is best for the community.”







Steve Neavling

Steve Neavling lives and works in Detroit as an investigative journalist. His stories have uncovered corruption, led to arrests and reforms and prompted FBI investigations.
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:16 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20090618/METRO/906180406
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:18 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

June 18, 2009 at 4:22 pm
Detroit police routinely underreport homicides
Actual '08 total gives city worst rate in nation
Charlie LeDuff and Santiago Esparza
The Detroit News

The Detroit Police Department is systematically undercounting homicides, leading to a falsely low murder rate in a city that regularly ranks among the nation's deadliest, a Detroit News review of police and medical examiner records shows.

The police department incorrectly reclassified 22 of its 368 slayings last year as "justifiable" and did not report them as homicides to the FBI as required by federal guidelines. There were at least 59 such omissions over the past five years, according to incomplete records obtained from the police department through the Freedom of Information Act.

A thorough look at the 2008 homicide statistics reveals other omissions:


•In one case, the police reclassified a homicide as a suicide.

•Two men were stabbed to death, but were not included due to "insufficient evidence."


•A man who was beaten to death, according to the medical examiner, died by accident, according to the police.


•A baby beaten to death never made the homicide tally, nor did a man who was found shot in the head.

What is more, records show Detroit police officers killed 10 civilians last year, a five-fold increase from 2007. That makes the Detroit department one of the most deadly in America even as it operates under federal supervision, for among other things, the use of lethal force and the illegal detention of witnesses.

Adjusting Detroit's number to 368 homicides pushes the city's rate to 40.7 per 100,000 residents, past the previously reported rate of 33.8 and well ahead of Baltimore's 36.9. It makes Detroit once again the Murder Capital of cities with more than 500,000 residents.

"What's happening here is they're excluding justifiable homicides when they shouldn't be. Period." said Wayne County Prosecutor Kym Worthy.

Tally sparks questionsThe chronic undercounting not only revises Detroit's homicide rate upward, but also raises questions about whether all killings are fully investigated and whether officials have accurate information on which to devote crime-fighting resources or gauge their effectiveness.

Detroit police officials acknowledge that they don't include homicides that are ruled self-defense, but say that prosecutor's decisions influence their reporting.

"There is a lot of outrage out there," said Ron Scott, a civil rights activist and leader of the Detroit Coalition Against Police Brutality. "People call me wanting to know why the killing of their loved ones are not being investigated."

Criminal justice experts say that perception often is a motivator for police departments to keep murder stats low. "There is a lot of pressure out there to bring crime down," said Jon Shane, a professor of criminology at John Jay College of Criminal Justice at the City University of New York and a former supervising officer of homicide with the Newark Police Department. "No mayor wants to be mayor of the murder capital. Precinct commanders are pushed to bring down crime. Those who do, get promoted. Those who don't, languish."

The Detroit Homicide bureau shows that detectives responded to 423 cases of suspicious death in 2008. The number of homicides was reduced to 377 after the medical examiner ruled 45 people had died either of suicide or natural causes. Ten of those were killed by police officers, a number that's excluded from homicide counts by federal regulators. These were removed from homicide roll and given the classification of "backed out." The News found one other death in Detroit that was not recorded by either the police or reported to the medical examiner.

But the Detroit police reported only 306 homicides to the Michigan State Police, who forward statistics to the FBI as part of the bureau's preliminary report released this month on crime in America. That number, the lowest in decades, immediately prompted skepticism.

Dr. Carl Schmidt, the chief Wayne County Examiner, says his office investigated 377 cases of homicide in Detroit last year, including the killings by police.

"All I can tell you is that we look at an injury and 99 percent of the time -- because of the kind of injury it is -- there is no question that it is homicide," said Dr. Schmidt. "Those 377 are unequivocally homicides -- death from another person's hand. We're careful about that. If we have any doubt, if it is not clear that the death is homicide, we will label that as indeterminate."

How FBI defines murderThe FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting Program defines murder as the willful killing of one human being by another. The classification is based on police investigation and not that of a court, prosecutor's office, medical examiner or jury. The category does not include deaths by suicide, accident or justifiable homicides. But a justifiable homicide, according to the bureau, is limited to the killing of a felon by a peace officer in the line of duty and the killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a citizen.

"There's homicide and there's murder," said Detroit Police Dep. Chief James Tolbert. "Now when the medical examiner still says it's a homicide and we go on about our investigation and (in the course of) our investigation we present documents to the prosecutor's office, they can say it's self-defense. It's ruled medically a homicide. But in the eyes of the prosecutor's office they will not charge anybody with this."

Tolbert said that the prosecutor makes the decision about intent to kill and is ultimately the one who backs-out homicides.

"We have 26 warrants sitting at her office waiting for her to sign. We cannot count those homicides until she signs those warrants," Tolbert said.

But FBI guidelines state: "Reporting agencies should take care to ensure that they do not classify a killing as justifiable solely on the claims of self-defense or on the action of ... prosecutors" and that "agencies must report the willful killing of one individual by another, not the criminal liability of the person or persons involved."

"It is very, very clear in the language," Worthy said. "Lawful self-defense is still a homicide and it still has to be counted as a homicide and it still has to be reported to the FBI."

As a matter of policy, the other top cities for murder Houston (294), Chicago (510), Philadelphia (331), Los Angeles (384), New York (523) and Baltimore (234) claim that they use the medical examiner's numbers.

"The presumption of police reporting that someone did not die of a murder because he was killed in self-defense is not correct," said Lee Baca, the Los Angeles County Sheriff.

The system of crime reporting works on the honor system. "The FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting Program is a cooperative statistical effort that relies on the good-faith reporting of thousands of law enforcement agencies across the nation," according to a statement from the FBI.

The Detroit police backed-out more than just self-defense cases, records show:


•Feb. 19: Eugene Richards, 54, died of stab wounds. The police ruled insufficient evidence; the medical examiner said homicide.


•April 14: Willie Lee Thomas, 61, died of multiple stab wounds. Police ruled insufficient evidence.


•June 8: Antonio Bailey, 33, suffered a gunshot wound to the head. Police called it suicide; the medical examiner ruled homicide.


•April 7: One-year-old Promise Wilson-Jones died of abusive head-trauma according to the medical examiner. Her case was not recorded in the police tally.


•Nov. 28: Roland Jordan, 52, was found at the McNichols/Interstate-75 interchange with blunt force trauma to the head. Police called it an accident; the medical examiner ruled it a homicide.

Then there was the murder of Rico White, which appears in no official Detroit death record. White was abducted last January along with his fiancee and two children from their home in Warren. The family was released unharmed. White was found dead at McNichols and Van Dyke in Detroit with bullets in his skull. His case is being handled by Warren police but his murder was never recorded in Detroit.

charlie@detnews.com">charlie@detnews.com (313) 222-2071

The FBI guidelinesThe FBI gives law enforcement agencies latitude in reporting homicides, but provides definitions, general guidance and examples of what should be counted:
Definition: The willful killing of one human being by another.
Guidance: As a general rule, any death caused by injuries received in a fight, argument, quarrel, assault, or commission of a crime.
Not included: Killings of felons by peace officers in the line or duty or by private citizens when the felon is committing a felony.
Relevant examples of cases that must be counted:


•A husband and wife had an argument. The wife shot the husband and severely wounded him. He grabbed the gun and shot and killed her. The husband survived his wounds. The police subsequently arrested him.

•While playing cards, two men got into an argument. The first man attacked the second with a broken bottle. The second man pulled a gun and killed the first. The police arrested the shooter; he claimed self-defense. The police found no other witnesses.
Source: U.S. Department of Justice Uniform Crime Reporting Handbook



From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20090618/METRO/906180406#ixzz3XF5EynpV
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:25 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

http://www.metrotimes.com/detroit/internal-affairs/Content?oid=2178624
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:41 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/detroit-cops-win-65m-suit-against-mayor/
Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:03 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

/ CBSNews/CBS/AP/September 11, 2007, 5:39 PM

Detroit Cops Win $6.5M Suit Against Mayor


A jury ruled in favor of two former Detroit police officers Tuesday, awarding them $6.5 million in a whistleblower lawsuit that churned out allegations of misdeeds by the mayor's staff and extramarital affairs by the mayor himself.

Gary Brown and Harold Nelthrope had sued the mayor and the city, saying city officials made them suffer after they raised questions about alleged wrongdoing within Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick's security unit.

The Wayne County Circuit Court jury found after a 15-day trial that Kilpatrick and the city had violated the state's Whistleblower Protection Act in the case.

"I'm absolutely blown away at this decision," said Kilpatrick, adding that the city would appeal. "I know Detroiters are too."

Brown said he's happy with the way it turned out. "I'm glad I had an opportunity to tell my story," he said.

Brown claimed he was fired in 2003 because he was looking into allegations of drunken-driving accidents, falsified overtime records and a possible cover-up of incidents involving members of the security unit. He said he was investigating claims from two former mayoral bodyguards that the mayor used his bodyguards to facilitate and cover up extramarital affairs.

"The verdict was more reflective of improper information that went into this trial," said Kilpatrick lawyer Sam McCargo. "It was two cases in one. A morality trial was added to this employment case."

Nelthrope sued after Kilpatrick's administration released a confidential police memo naming him as a source of allegations of misconduct by other bodyguards. Nelthrope said he was transferred out of the security detail and couldn't return to work out of fear for his safety.

Nelthrope has described escorting the mayor to trysts with Christine Beatty, Kilpatrick's chief of staff, and other women.

Kilpatrick, a married father of three, and Beatty have both denied the allegations in court.

Kilpatrick and his attorneys have said the mayor decided to remove Brown as deputy chief in charge of internal affairs came because he lost professional confidence in the man's abilities.

Defense attorneys also maintained that Nelthrope received a disability pension and Brown was demoted - not dismissed - and received a full-service retirement.

The jurors awarded $3.6 million to Brown and $2.9 million to Nelthrope.

"I'm just glad to have my reputation back," Nelthrope told CBS Detroit.

Judge Michael Callahan instructed jurors before they began deliberating Tuesday that the state's Whistleblower Protection Act is designed to protect employees who report or are about to report suspected violations of rules, laws or regulations by their employer or a co-worker. He said the protection only applies to employees who have a "reasonable belief" of violations.
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Post Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:06 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

Jury rules against Detroit mayor

Updated 9/11/2007 5:36 PM | Comment | Recommend



By M.L. Elrick, Detroit Free Press

A jury ruled in favor of two former Detroit police officers Tuesday, awarding them $6.5 million in a whistle-blower lawsuit that alleged misdeeds by the mayor's staff and extramarital affairs by the mayor himself.

Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick said at a news conference this afternoon he was shocked by the jury's decision.

"I'm absolutely blown away by this decision and I'm sure Detroiters are, too," he said at a news conference

"I don't believe there is one thing in this case that was proven on the plaintiff's side – not one," he added.

"We don't have the money to settle with these clients. We don't believe that we should settle with these clients. We don't believe we should pay this settlement.


Asked whether he though the verdict reflects on his reputation with Detroiters, the mayor replied, "I think my reputation rests with the city of Detroit. Being that there was only one (juror from Detroit), I guess I will have to talk to her."

The suit was brought by former Deputy Police Chief Gary Brown and former mayoral bodyguard Harold Nelthrope. Brown claimed he was fired in 2003 because he was looking into allegations of drunken-driving accidents, falsified overtime records and a possible cover-up of incidents involving members of the security unit. He said he was investigating claims from two former mayoral bodyguards that the mayor used his bodyguards to facilitate and cover up extramarital affairs.

"The verdict was more reflective of improper information that went into this trial," said Kilpatrick lawyer Sam McCargo. "It was two cases in one. A morality trial was added to this employment case."

Nelthrope sued after Kilpatrick's administration released a confidential police memo naming him as a source of allegations of misconduct by other bodyguards. Nelthrope said he was transferred out of the security detail and couldn't return to work out of fear for his safety.

Nelthrope has described escorting the mayor to trysts with Christine Beatty, Kilpatrick's chief of staff, and other women.

Kilpatrick, a married father of three, and Beatty have both denied the allegations in court.

Kilpatrick and his attorneys have said the mayor decided to remove Brown as deputy chief in charge of internal affairs came because he lost professional confidence in the man's abilities.

Former Detroit Police Chief Jerry Oliver, who promoted Brown to deputy chief, said today from his home in Phoenix that he hopes Kilpatrick learned a lesson.

"I'm sure at this point in the mayor's career, he would handle the situation differently," Oliver said. "I would like to think that he would consult with the chief of police in more detail before a decision like that is made."

Oliver, now director of the Arizona Department of Liquor and License control said he felt bad for the city.

"I think it's tragic because of what I know the needs are and how that $6.5 million could be used to enhance, improve and modernize the Detroit police department," he said.

A jury returned a unanimous verdict against Kilpatrick and the city of Detroit in the civil lawsuit.

Brown was awarded $3.6 million and Nelthrope was awarded $2.9 million.

Jurors refused to speak to members of the media after the trial.

Michael Stefani, the lawyer for Nelthrope and Brown, spoke to the jury for about 20 minutes after the verdict. He said the decision against Kilpatrick and the city came quickly.

"It was unanimous as soon as they got in the jury room," Stefani said.

The jurors told them they didn't believe Kilpatrick on the witness stand.

"One of the jurors said he's a very poor liar," Stefani said.

Brown also spoke to the jurors, and one or two of them joked that they had a crush on him.

"We asked them questions about what we could have done better," Brown said. "They said 'nothing.' "

Brown's $3.6 million was broken down as $300,000 for wage and economic losses resulting from what he contended was a forced retirement. He received $1.5 million in non-economic damages and $1.8 million in future economic losses.

Nelthrope received $40,000 in wage and economic losses, $1.3 million in future economic damages, $360,000 in non-economic losses and $1.2 million in additional non-economic damages.

It took only three hours for the Wayne County jury to return its verdict, a stunning defeat for Kilpatrick and the city. It was unclear whether the city would appeal the decision, but any verdict against the city would have to be paid from city funds provided by taxpayers.

Judge Michael Callahan told jurors before deliberations began that each plaintiff and defendant is entitled to separate consideration.

Callahan instructed jurors Tuesday morning that the state's Whistle-blower Protection Act is designed to provide protection to employees who report or about to report suspected violations of rules, laws or regulations by their employer or a co-worker. He said the protection only applies to employees who have a "reasonable belief" of violations.

Contributing: Associated Press
Post Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:55 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/03/kwame_scandal_flashback_the_ma.html
Post Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:12 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

Kwame scandal flashback: The Manoogian Mansion party

Gus Burns | fburns@mlive.com By Gus Burns | fburns@mlive.com
Follow on Twitter
on March 11, 2013 at 12:05 PM, updated March 11, 2013 at 12:07 PM


AP file photo
DETROIT — The Manoogian Mansion party that never was — or at least that never was proven — is among the most fantastic of Kwame Kilpatrick lore.
Less than a year into his tenure came the most famous unproven party in Detroit's history, the raucous, stripper-pole laden Manoogian Mansion party that lore says involved a fight between Detroit's first lady and a stripper named "Strawberry."

But, then again, many say it never happened, including investigative reporter M.L. Elrick, formerly of the Detroit Free Press where he helped break the text-message scandal that led to Kilpatrick's resignation. He is now with Fox 2 News.

"We could never prove that it happened (and I believe it did not, at least not as portrayed in legend)," wrote Elrick in October of 2012 reminiscing about the time he and fellow reporter Jim Schaefer of the Free Press received a private tour of the mansion. "We were more successful confirming that Hizzoner used city funds to lease a luxury Lincoln Navigator for his wife, Carlita."

Fact or fiction, it affected Kilpatrick for years.

On record witnesses to the party include a stripper who identified the party as happening in March of 2003, even though all other accounts indicate it was in the fall of 2002, and a biker who said he was paid to provide security.

According to lore, stripper Tamara Greene was seen by the First Lady giving Kilpatrick a lap dance, which prompted Carlita Kilpatrick to grab a blunt object, potentially a leg from a piece of furniture, and attack Greene.

Greene would be killed in a drive-by shooting that occurred in April of 2003, which led to rumors that it might have been an inside job to keep her quiet.

A former police officer claimed she heard second hand that then-Attorney General Mike Cox, who later investigated the party rumors on behalf of the state, attended Manoogian Mansion party.




Attorneys on behalf of Greene's son would file a $150 million lawsuit against the city alleging a coverup by Kilpatrick and the city by destroying documents and demoting or firing of six investigators who investigated Greene's death. The case was thrown out of court in 2011 for lack of evidence but is now being considered on appeal.

To the surprise of appellate judges, U.S. District Judge Gerald Rosen who dismissed the case in 2011, sealed much of the evidence, including the depositions of former Michigan Attorney General Mike Cox, and Kilpatrick's wife, Carlita Kilpatrick, and his former aide Christine Beatty.

Mention of the party first became public in May of 2003, days after Kilpatrick fired Deputy Chief Gary Brown in retaliation for an investigation into indiscretions by the mayor's security detail.


Brown released a memo mentioning the 2002 party and accusing Kilpatrick's bodyguards of misconduct.

Brown and two other officers would file a whistleblower lawsuit which was settled for more than $8 million in 2007. Attorneys in that case uncovered the steamy emails between Kilpatrick and Beatty that eventually were made public by the Detroit Free Press and led to Kilpatrick's resignation and perjury allegations.
Post Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:15 pm 
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo

I had an interesting conversation with a Detroit media person and someone involved in the Kilpatrick scandals.

After being told emphatically that the party never occurred several years ago by the Kilpatrick insider, the media person told a different story. While describing a tour of the Manoogian Mansion, the media person stated the Kilpatrick insider had shown them where the party had been held. After an embarrassed silence there was a discussion of how people could be shuttled into the mansion without the neighbors knowing.
Post Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:26 pm 
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