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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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February 26, 2010
Letter from GCDC to Pamela Turner, City of Detroit, water and Sewerage Department
RE: Open Letter to the "Flint Journal" February 25,2010
....Let me begin by reminding you that at our last meeting, which occurred on March 10, 2009, we thought we had come to an understanding that if Detroit wanted to have a serious dialog regarding a long-term partnership between Flint and genesee County, we were available to meet at any time,and we would not negotiate through the media. The issues are as complex as your rate model, and a two second sound bite will not resolve these outstanding issues. As indicated we worked with your predecessor for over 5 years without any negative publicity. I hope this is the last time you bow to those factions in your department that feel the media is the proper venue for negotiations. Now on to your letter. As before, I will respond to each of your allegations, item by item. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:22 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| You indicate that you are interested in working with us on a truly regional water supply. We have sent letters to your attention and also to Mayor Bing requesting meetings. All correspondence has gone unanswered. The Flint/Genesee group has offered four alternatives for a partnership with Detroit that have been summarily rejected. We offered over 5 pages of proposed changes to the standard water contract. You have either ignored or summarily rejected these, yet have not provided any formal alternative response. The first and only offer your office made was to Genesee County. By our calculations, and you have not disputed them, your proposal would cost more than the standard agreement and would maintain the current buyer and seller arrangement. As you recall, we informed you that Genesee County has formed a partnership with the City of Flint and Lapeer County, and we would not cut a side deal and abandon our partners. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:41 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Does the City of Detroit have a proposal to make to the group?
Your letter continues to say that you're distressed to see that the Genesee County Board Chairman wants to see Mr. Wright's plan turned to a reality. First off, this is not Jeff Wright's plan. This is a plan developed by the three member counties,the City of Flint and the City of Lapeer. It is a regional plan with a true partnership. Continuing, you were distressed that this project would become a reality. Our obtaining the first withdrawal permit in the State under the Great Lakes Charter did not give you a hint of desire to provide better rates for our region? Our State Permit and the Army Corps of Engineers permit to begin core sampling in Lake Huron does not indicate our desire to find a better delivery system? Regardless I ask, "Does the City of Detroit have a substantive proposal to provide reliable water to our region? If so, What is it.? |
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:59 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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In the second paragraph, you ask the community to compare your water rate of $14.32 to the potential rate of $37.93, as the water rate in 2014.
Your own office has already made recommendation to the Detroit Water and Sewerage Board to increase our rate to $15.86 per thousand cubic feet. Your own reports indicate that we can expect double digit rate increases over the next 10 years; and in your letter, you have indicated that we could see over 20% rate increases. What is the projected rate for Flint/Genesee/ Lapeer from Detroit in 2014? What is the rate for Flint/Genesee/Lapeer if you actually build the NOTS and FLS pipeline in 2014. Do you have the bonding capability to make it a reality.
DWSD has been given copies of the lake Huron water initiative reports from its first version in 2006 through the final version of 2009. Your office has never disputed the project rates as detailed in the report. To use a rate of $14.32, when you have already proposed to increase it to $15.85 is quite misleading. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:14 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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As you are aware, if you read the report, that we did a "pay as you go" program, our rates would be doubled during the construction period; but, just as DWSD does, can we spread those costs over the life of the project? Had you read all of the report, you would have seen that the projected rates spread out over the life of the project would be less than those projected if we signed the standard Detroit contract.
communication
Your letter talks about the great strides your office has made over the last seven years in communication and customer satisfaction. That was the previous administration. Since you have been Director, we have met once . At that meeting you offered the County a special deal that would have left the City of Flint hanging in the wind; but what was most disturbing was that you insulted them by making the offer while their own representative was sitting at the table. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:33 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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The City of Flint and Genesee County have extensive water storage systems. You know as well as I do, that as you work with your customers to install water storage and tanks, their rates will be reduced, and Flint/Genesee's rates will increase to replace the lost revenue. Flint/Genesee's PH distance elevation volume is fixed. A decrease by others will increase our overall cost. This region has never disputed your cost to produce the water....just your delivery charge. The peak distance elevation makes up over 50% of our costs. Your assistance in management of their rates will cause ours to increase. Furthermore, your PH distance elevation method for dealing with water loss results in Flint/Genesee paying for 5 gallons of water and only receiving 4 gallons.
Does the City have a substive proposal to resolve this issue? |
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:49 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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The County has read the article, "A New Regional Paradigm, Working Together to Manage Water Rates", and the "Blue Economy". The basic philosophy of these documents is that development should remain in southeastern Michigan and Flint. Genesee and Lapeer should be a suburb of Detroit. The last time this was agreed to, General Motors relocated their headquarters from Flint to Detroit.
Now for the elephant in the room. Either Detroit or our regional group is going to build a second pipeline to this area, and we are going to pays for it. Our report says we can do it cheaper than you can and in the end, we'll own it. Each member becomes an equal partner in establishing rates, policy, and contracts. The 25 million dollars we send annually to Detroit will now remain in our own communities. The construction project will hire our local contractors. The water plants will employ our resident, and our water rates will be competitive with the rates that DWSD would charge us for the first 30 years. And after that, we will be 60 % less than DWSD and we will have a 30 year system --not a 100 year old system. |
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:10 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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This region is looking at the long-term not short-term.
We agree that we should meet, but Detroit needs to be prepared to offer a true partnership to all of our regional members. Provide us with a reliable water supply and a rate structure that is fair and equitable for th long-term and not the short run.
Does the City of Detroit have such an offer to compete with the Karegnondi Water Authority plan?
In closing, since Detroit has chosen to negotiate through the local media, the Flint Journal, I propose to Detroit that a series of town hall meetings be held in our community, with you, Pam Turner, and I,discussing the benefits of Detroit's options and Flint/Genesee regions' options, so all residents can see for themselves what is being considered.
John O'Brien |
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Thu Apr 26, 2018 12:20 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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In 1997 or earlier, a second pipeline was being touted as necessary.
2-20-1997 Linda Angelo, Huron Pipeline Pushed-Flint, County devising plan for $225-million water project.
Plans were being proposed to build a second pipeline as Flint and genesee county Officials said they were fed up "with continual water rate increases from Detroit".
"This demonstrates a very sincere effort by the city and county to move forward and develop our own pipeline," said Flint city Council President Scott Kincaid, who served on the eight-member Advisory Board.
"Building a pipeline has the support of mayor Woodrow Stanley and Genesee County Drain Commissioner Anthony Ragnone, whose office built and oversees the county water system outside Flint.
"The city council and Genesee County Board of Commissioners both must approve the plan for it to go ahead.
Flint buys it's water from Detroit Water and Sewage Department and Genesee County buys its water from Flint" |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 8:41 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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The Journal noted that flint experienced 16 water rate increases from 1970 and was to have the fourth consecutive rate hike in 1998. Flint statistics showed showed an increase of 333 percent.
An independent water board would oversee the water distribution and rates. Ken Hardin, Chairman of the Genesee County Board of Commissioners, and an advisory board member, stated "We'e now at the mercy of the City Detroit".
Flint City Administrator David Ready discussed how Flint and the other county communities experienced different rates. " The mayor and the council are in agreement to go forward pending the outcome of this committee's partnership and working out the details", said Ready.
Anthony Ragnone was strongly in favor of the pipeline and said "The City of Detroit has taken our money over all these years and never did anything for us other than provide us with water."
Last edited by untanglingwebs on Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:00 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Even then Detroit was trying to discourage construction of a second pipeline and disagreed with the Flint/Genesee analysis. Stephen F Gorden, director of Detroit's water and sewer system, told Angelo that if there was a belief that the Detroit system was not economical, then a pipeline could be constructed. However he wanted to to discus all issues.
Flint officially joined the Detroit water system in 1969 and the contract was to end in 2001. The pipeline jogs north and goes to Flint around Imlay City.Any break in that line would require Flint to treat Flint River water.
"Although state law mandates that cities have a secondary water supply, Detroit does nor provide a backup supply to Flint". |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:15 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Gorden told the city and county that Detroit would build storage tanks in the southern part of Genesee County to serve as a secondary water system,but that proposal was rejected by Anthony Ragnone, who said that would not meet demand.
According to Ragnone the storage would be inadequate to serve both Flint and Genesee County. Ragnone cited several studies that indicated a second pipeline would be more cost effective in the long-term than having a second line to Detroit or staying with Detroit and upgrading the Flint water plant.
The committee charged with coming up with a financing plan:
Flint City Administrator David Ready;
Flint City councilmen Scott Kincaid and Jack Minore;
water plant supervisor Bob Carlyon;
.County Commissioners Bob Meyers (Genesee Township), Ken Hardin andTim Herman (Flint), Fred Shaltz (Fenton Township) |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:30 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Detroit Free Press, 3-24-97, Lekan Oguntoyinbo, Flint Plans to cut off Detroit water, start system with Genesee County
Detroit was facing losing up to 300,000 customers in Genesee county, their largest customer accounting for nearly 6 % of Detroit's revenue for their water system.Detroit Mayor Dennis Archer was to come to Flint to persuade Mayor Woodrow Stanley to stay with Detroit.
Archer praised Flint for doing due diligence, but believed he could persuade Flint to stay with Detroit. This was despite the fact that Detroit had failed to build a secondary water source.
Flint City Administrator David Ready stated Detroit had refused because of "tremendous infrastructure costs associated with a second pipeline'. As to the $40 million Detroit wanted to build three to five days of water storage, Ready noted they could up grade the Flint plant for that amount. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:33 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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Ready told the Free Press that it was his belief that the $240 million joint project between Flint and genesee county would eventually stabilize rates as the rates had ballooned since 1969.
Chairman of the Genesee County Board of Commissioners, Ken Hardin stated the advisory group felt that it was feasible to bond the issue.
"Detroit serves nearly four million residents, and its water rates rank among the lowest in the country. But Hardin says a new pipeline would eventually lead to lower rates for Flint." |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:41 am |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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March 16, 1997 Flint Journal, Tammy Webber, Local control behind waterline decision;Flint, county prepare to dive in, leave Detroit system high, dry
Flint had almost built their own pipeline 30 years earlier, but decided Detroit was less expensive. Officials lamented that decision as the water rates had increased at a faster pace then they had expected.
"Now fed up with increases they say benefit other Detroit water customers, city and county officials are ready to strike out on their own with a proposed $225 million water pipeline to lake Huron."
The first water that flowed to Flint came from the Detroit River and lake Huron water did not start until 1973.
The supervisor of the Flint Plant, Bob Carlyon, discussed the problems with Flint's first attempt to build their own pipeline. While Carlyon had struggled to keep the land acquisition a secret to prevent profiteering, a land scandal destroyed that first attempt. |
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Fri Apr 27, 2018 12:16 pm |
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