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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D
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| OK follow this math with me. If every officer works 48 hours a week (considering that there are 12 hour shifts now and much of the private sector works this) and lets assume 20 of the 104 cops do not do any patrolling, a very logical idea, that should leave us with 24 patrol cops per shift. Now lets assume a third are out sick or on leave, that still leaves us with 16 patrol cops. Can anyone tell me why we have 2 patrolling? |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:40 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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That is a good question. But you are forgetting the officers that are COPS and are still working 8 hour shifts, How about the special units and the cops that are assigned to special task forces, who by the terms of the grants are not supposed to be on patrol. Also the 12 hour shifts have officers working only 3 days some weeks to eliminate the overtime. They still may work over 80 hours per 2 week pay period. The officers working 8 hour shifts end up with 4 day weekends on a scheduled basis. Simple math scheduling can't account for all of the complexities. What about officers required to testify in court? There is the "Glory boys" who are on special assignment.
i understand there has been a rash of retirements, including Lt. Speedy. Your math "does not compute" as the city was calculating layoffs according to the administration as recently as 2 days ago. Shift schedules have to be worked out and 14 day notifications are required. You should listen to the real cops who keep telling you 4 to 6 officers per shift. You are screwing around with things you know nothing about. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:52 pm |
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D
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Ok so please tell me how many cops will be on the streets with the special task forces and cops officers included? And I thought this site said all of the cops officers were cut? But please answer the first question. I;d love to know how a possibility of 20-24 patrol officers can be brought to 4-6, simply by schedules  |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 6:56 pm |
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BAH836
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
munnbreslin schreef:
Ok so please tell me how many cops will be on the streets with the special task forces and cops officers included? And I thought this site said all of the cops officers were cut? But please answer the first question. I;d love to know how a possibility of 20-24 patrol officers can be brought to 4-6, simply by schedules
It is easy. Not all officers are in patrol, so each shift doesn't have 20 officers assigned to it.
I think you should give up on the math. Just a few weeks ago your mathematics revealed only 18 officers would be laid off and now, just like you were told, the number is actually much higher.
Each time you post it becomes more obvious that you don't have a clue. |
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Thu Mar 25, 2010 10:49 pm |
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D
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Well, here we go. With the numbers down to 104, you have to remember that those numbers include all sworn officers from the chief on down.
Chief plus lieutenants equal 8. So we are down to 96.
There are 18 sergeants assigned to the detective bureau, so we are down to 78.
There are 4 officers assigned to out county drug task forces, so we are down to 74.
There are 6 officers/sergeants assigned to the City drug investigations, so we are down to 68.
There is 1 sergeant and 6 officers assigned to the liason program.
So we are down to 61.
There is 1 officer assigned to the PAL program, so we are down to 60.
There are 3 sergeants and 7 officers assigned to the traffic bureau, so we are down to 50.
There is 1 officer assigned to Complete Towing, so we are down to 49.
There are now 36 officers and 1 sergeant assigned to Cops/foot patrol, so we are down to 13 cops in the patrol bureau answering 911 calls.
Once you factor in days off it becomes easier to see why there is nobody left to respond to emergency situations. There were people being called in on overtime yesterday starting at 5 pm because of the back log of serious calls and the lack of officers on the street. It was a Thursday night and it was cold out. Wait til a hot weekend. This is going to be interesting. (Anymore questions Munn) |
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:32 am |
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Josh Freeman
F L I N T O I D
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This was very helpful....
Are the following absolutely needed, or could we get along without them...
4 officers at the county drug task force
7 officers at the liason program
1 officer at the PAL program
1 officer at Complete |
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:56 am |
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bluecat1122
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Josh Freeman schreef:
This was very helpful....
Are the following absolutely needed, or could we get along without them...
4 officers at the county drug task force
7 officers at the liason program
1 officer at the PAL program
1 officer at Complete
Yes, because they're NOT paid for by the City; they're grant funded with the exception of Complete, and I'm not sure if we pay for that or not. So NO, they cannot be moved. |
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:37 pm |
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D
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| The drug task force officers are not grant funded, with the exception of the DEA task force member(he is paid for, or at least supplemented by the feds). The others are simply there for a share of the forfeiture proceeds. The liason officers are half paid by the Flint Board of Education, not completely funded. The PAL officer is not grant funded, unless they are using one of the grant funded COPS positions to cover PAL. The Complete officer is not grant funded at all, or paid for by Complete. |
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:03 pm |
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Josh Freeman
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Bossman schreef:
The drug task force officers are not grant funded, with the exception of the DEA task force member(he is paid for, or at least supplemented by the feds). The others are simply there for a share of the forfeiture proceeds. The liason officers are half paid by the Flint Board of Education, not completely funded. The PAL officer is not grant funded, unless they are using one of the grant funded COPS positions to cover PAL. The Complete officer is not grant funded at all, or paid for by Complete.
So are these "units" a luxury or a necessity? Where do we get our biggest bang for the buck? Does it make more sense to fold them back into "regular" City operations or leave them where they are and continue to subsidize those operations?
Why does an officer need to be posted at Complete for the entire day? Is that something that a non-uniformed person could do? The latest budget to actual shows that we have cleared nearly $300,000.00 this fiscal year from towing/impound. |
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:39 pm |
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untanglingwebs
El Supremo
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| What about the officers assigned to Leyton's South Side task force. They are grant funded. |
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:59 pm |
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munnbreslin
F L I N T O I D
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| Yes bossman, if there should be 13 patrol cops, why do we commonly work with 6 as the schedule says? Do we really run a system where over half of the officers are commonly off? If all were working, that would be more than 1 per ward, about 1.5 per ward. Why do we continue to operate on this schedule and has the higher up staff (seargents, detective bureau, etc) been cut or moved, or has the union allowed for them to maintain their position with only patrolmen being layed off and left unreplaced? And we have 7 liason officers, and we have 10 people assigned to traffic and 7 lieutenants who do no patrolling, why? Why does the upper management still seem to function as though there are 300 cops, when there are 104? The department needs to be less topheavy and to reform the structure, now. |
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:24 pm |
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Bossman
F L I N T O I D
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Josh, I believe traffic and liason are luxuries. All patrol officers can take accidents and the Flint Board of Education should hire security guards for all their schools and call 911 when necessary. I believe there is a legal requirement for vehicles being released by an officer. PAL is completely unneccesary, in my opinion. The drug unions are basically a necessary evil.
Munn, Using your math the 13 people left in patrol should work 24/7/365? Common sense would tell you why all 13 aren't working all the time. Maybe we should just have one shift that never ends and no days off. As far as the department being top heavy, it has been substantially cut as well. There were 76 sergeants in 1998 and there are only 40 now. There used to be 15 captains and lieutenants combined, now there are no captains and 7 lieutenants. You seem to have the uncanny ability to turn water into wine. Maybe you can figure out a way to turn a 100 member department back into a 300 member department so it can function appropriately. |
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Fri Mar 26, 2010 4:51 pm |
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FlintBeerMan
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Josh Freeman schreef:
quote:
Bossman schreef:
The drug task force officers are not grant funded, with the exception of the DEA task force member(he is paid for, or at least supplemented by the feds). The others are simply there for a share of the forfeiture proceeds. The liason officers are half paid by the Flint Board of Education, not completely funded. The PAL officer is not grant funded, unless they are using one of the grant funded COPS positions to cover PAL. The Complete officer is not grant funded at all, or paid for by Complete.
So are these "units" a luxury or a necessity? Where do we get our biggest bang for the buck? Does it make more sense to fold them back into "regular" City operations or leave them where they are and continue to subsidize those operations?
Why does an officer need to be posted at Complete for the entire day? Is that something that a non-uniformed person could do? The latest budget to actual shows that we have cleared nearly $300,000.00 this fiscal year from towing/impound.
Josh you cant support walling do you? |
_________________
Flint is a place where people live cause they can't afford any place else to live. |
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Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:32 pm |
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FlintBeerMan
F L I N T O I D
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quote:
Bossman schreef:
Josh, I believe traffic and liason are luxuries. All patrol officers can take accidents and the Flint Board of Education should hire security guards for all their schools and call 911 when necessary. I believe there is a legal requirement for vehicles being released by an officer. PAL is completely unneccesary, in my opinion. The drug unions are basically a necessary evil.
Munn, Using your math the 13 people left in patrol should work 24/7/365? Common sense would tell you why all 13 aren't working all the time. Maybe we should just have one shift that never ends and no days off. As far as the department being top heavy, it has been substantially cut as well. There were 76 sergeants in 1998 and there are only 40 now. There used to be 15 captains and lieutenants combined, now there are no captains and 7 lieutenants. You seem to have the uncanny ability to turn water into wine. Maybe you can figure out a way to turn a 100 member department back into a 300 member department so it can function appropriately.
man does josh support walling? |
_________________
Flint is a place where people live cause they can't afford any place else to live. |
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Sat Mar 27, 2010 7:32 pm |
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le3yonk
F L I N T O I D
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Thu Apr 01, 2010 7:20 am |
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