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Topic: City Council back-pay
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Josh Freeman
F L I N T O I D

I've got a question about the process that was involved with this back-pay issue.

First, no matter what anyone thinks as to whether those Councilfolks should have got the back pay, the Court has ordered that they pay, so they should.

Second, my understanding of the system is this... the State Constitution states that elected officials in the State of Mich. have their pay set by a Local Officers Compensation Commission (LOCC). The Constitution says this. So how does a Financial Manager have the authority to over-rule what the Constitution demands and pick a rate of pay out of the air, essentially usurping the authority given to the LOCC by the State Constitution? PA72, the Act that gives the Financial Manager his/her powers is just that, an Act. Does and PA overule the Constitution?

Any lawyer types out there that can answer this? I was on the Council just after all of this went down and tried not to involve myself in the matter as I had no "dog in the fight." The local media has done a poor job of informing the public as to the ruling, and it's basis, by the judge. Just curious if anyone has any thoughts.
Post Fri Dec 29, 2006 8:27 pm 
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rapunzel
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Josh, you are correct the media has done a poor job on reporting of this.

I do not think the council could vote themselves back pay for the time they were under "state takeover". Common sense rather than legal mind.

Still the journal reported some had made "arrangements to repay" . What arrangements? Was this statement a press release or based on fact?

I believe this information needs to be FOIA'd. Though I doubt the media will do so.

Josh, I would like your opinion on the draft surplus of the budget?

I am sure "with my limited knowledge" of the budget many services that have been cut could have been reinstated. Lawsuits pending may not have been taken into account?

I believe the surplus is smoke and mirrors.

Our millage paid, Community Police Officers are doing regular policing not what our millage that was voted on. They are all over the city not in the communities, not working out of Mini stations.

Have heard that all COMMUNITY POLICE OFFICERS will be reassigned. We voted for Community Policing if we do not have Community policing than that is a misappropriation of funding. FED Offense?

My community police officers have worked to get in touch with the community. As much as was allowed...if they are moved it defeats the whole concept. Gearing up to be really upset! I want to keep our local officers!

Peace,
RAP
Post Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:19 pm 
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Bad Rap
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quote:
rapunzel schreef:
Josh, you are correct the media has done a poor job on reporting of this.

I do not think the council could vote themselves back pay for the time they were under "state takeover". Common sense rather than legal mind.

Still the journal reported some had made "arrangements to repay" . What arrangements? Was this statement a press release or based on fact?

I believe this information needs to be FOIA'd. Though I doubt the media will do so.

Josh, I would like your opinion on the draft surplus of the budget?

I am sure "with my limited knowledge" of the budget many services that have been cut could have been reinstated. Lawsuits pending may not have been taken into account?

I believe the surplus is smoke and mirrors.

Our millage paid, Community Police Officers are doing regular policing not what our millage that was voted on. They are all over the city not in the communities, not working out of Mini stations.

Have heard that all COMMUNITY POLICE OFFICERS will be reassigned. We voted for Community Policing if we do not have Community policing than that is a misappropriation of funding. FED Offense?

My community police officers have worked to get in touch with the community. As much as was allowed...if they are moved it defeats the whole concept. Gearing up to be really upset! I want to keep our local officers!

Peace,
RAP



Smoke and Mirrors? They send this audit to the State, its not smoke and mirrors. Gosh why do you East side folk always .. and complain about things? Can't you just accept that this mayor is getting this city back into the black?
Post Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:53 pm 
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Post Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:15 am 
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rapunzel
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Thanks Larry!
"Even on the East Side people can read!"

If I remember correctly the way last years budget was laid out. NO ONE COULD READ IT!!! there was also still major lawsuits pending....water dept.

Many line items went back and forth thoughout depts. TED weigh in here!!
Distinctly remember your thoughts on the way the budget was laid out!


Do they send the draft budget to the state or the final budget?

How many freakin law suits against the city do we have judgements pending? Sewer backups that the city could have settled but went to court and may pay out much bigger?

3.2 million dollars was voted to go towards community policing (per year).
Where ismy community police officer? doing regular police work? are we paying twice for regular police? if so,where is the money from the two FED grants also going to the police dept.?

Get the smuck off me Toid. Give me a complete breakdown of this surplus.
This is the last year for these two suppliant grants. We shall see if we can get approved for another four year grant.

If we are third in crime now, see what happens if we no longer get approved for fed funds!

DEEP Breath....Exhale...

Just don't believe we can keep up the current basic level of services with decining population, economy and possible loss of Fed grants.

I asked for Josh's opinion?

Peace,
RAP
Post Sun Dec 31, 2006 3:18 am 
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Adam
F L I N T O I D

Larry you should have seen the budget that was given to the general public last year. It was the most jacked up thing I had ever seen. It looked like an Enron style budget. I have a college degree and looked it over and as I remember it didn't even say where our police money was coming from. I assumed it was coming from the general fund but it didn't say. Each departments funding was coming from multiple funds. The online budget looks ok though.
Post Sun Dec 31, 2006 12:18 pm 
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Josh Freeman
F L I N T O I D

I haven't seen the audit yet, though I have no doubt that there is a surplus. How much I'm not sure.

I'm not sure that they have shown the loans for the garbage trucks or the police vehicles in the audit because I'm not sure that they have made a payment on those yet. So right there you are looking at around $4 million in debt that I am not sure is reflected in the numbers.

I could be wrong though.

As for the lawsuits, they wouldn't be reflected either because they have been paid out yet. In the class action sewer case there is something like 250 people and the jury has been awarding hefty amounts in damages. I think that less than half have settled and we are close to $5 million dollars. But again, that wouldn't be reflected in this audit because they weren't paid in fiscal 05/06.

I think Fed grants that you are talking about must be the Weed & Seeds... I think that the eastside one runs out this year. They play a huge roll in combating crime in those targeted areas. They pay for the overtime for the officers that are doing targeted crime task forces. I think that in the past they have also paid to open the jail so that they would have a place to lodge the criminals that got caught in these stings. they would have a significant impact on the operations of the department if they were not renewed in some other area of the City. The fact that the Administration is not using the millage as it was intended would not be reflected in any Audit.

The Audit was due to the State on the 29th. To my knowledge they sent it.
Post Sun Dec 31, 2006 4:18 pm 
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rapunzel
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Happy New Year! All!

Thank You for validation!

Larry, was not being sarcastic.. truly thankful for your statement.
yes, even on the Eastside constituents can read!
... not that josh reaped the full reward. Guess they should have read between the lines to get the truth. A few more twins and we should be back! Maria chuckle please!

Adam, Thank You for remembering " the jacked up budget released last year!"

Josh, knew you would have estimates 4 million + 5 million + ? = ?pending

We are have 8.? surplus. Could very well be a least 1 million negative. When the bills come in. Don't tell me we will have as much money coming in next year while shops close.

Seems like Eastsiders can add also! A draft budget should include projected expenses. Yes? No?

We do have 1 year on at least the Eastside, Weed and Seed Grant not sure if North side has been assured. Half of these grants are spent on police initiatives. Two grants for other areas of the city may have been submitted though as Federal grants,read highly competitive across the nation for acceptance.

The "fact" the community police millage was not used as intended would not be reflected in any audit.

So community policing is being used as regular policing and this would beg that the regular policing is underfunded to almost 3.2 million.

The clerks office is underfunded and well noted, the ombudsmans office is a skeleton crew. Many mayorial appointments doing ? well funded .

Smoke and mirrors? Can't be?
Naw, like my daughter tells me her room is clean until I look under her bed!

Surprize, Surprize!
But what do Eastside folk know...any who!

Peace,
RAP
Post Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:44 am 
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Post Mon Jan 01, 2007 3:45 pm 
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D

I'm kind of bummed. I had hoped we'd stay on topic here. but there has been some great information added to this thread.

I'm still not seeing how the Mayor Presenting and giving the Council baypay is them stealing it from the city? Can someone out there explain?

I'm hoping to hear from those that say the Council Stole the money?

Post Tue Jan 02, 2007 11:15 pm 
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00SL2
F L I N T O I D

Ted, if you wanted this thread to stay on topic why post a graphic so totally
off topic. It also made all the posts run way off the screen. Shocked

By the way, Flint is third most dangerous city in the U.S., and fourth
largest city in Michigan (2000 U.S. Census). The Detroit
Free Press article is in their paid archives:
DETROIT NO. 2 ON CRIME LIST, STUDY SAYS
October 30, 2006 •• 463 words •• ID: dfp0000345882
"They were the best in baseball. Outside the ball diamond, Detroit and
St. Louis share another top spot: the most dangerous cities in the
United States. The annual ranking of the nation's most dangerous cities
found St. Louis first, Detroit second and Flint third, according to a
study to be released today by Morgan Quitno Press, a Kansas-based
company that publishes 'City Crime Rankings,' an annual reference book."

* * *

Josh's original questions are best answered by the written Opinion from
the Court of Appeals. It's very interesting reading, addressing the history,
dates, authorities, changes in law, etc.

Michigan Court of Appeals Opinion dated December 13, 2005.
For Publication. Official Reported Version
No. 263618, Ingham Circuit Court, LC No. 04-001113-CZ
Attorney General, Plaintiff-Appellee, v City of Flint and Donald J. Williamson,
Defendants, and Flint City Council, Peggy R. Cook, Ed Taylor, Scott Kincaid,
Johnnie Coleman, Carolyn Sims, Mark A. Horrigan, and Darryl E. Buchanan,
Defendants-Appellants.
Before: Hoekstra, P.J. and Neff and Davis, JJ.

http://www.courtofappeals.mijud.net/documents/OPINIONS/FINAL/COA/20051213_C263618_54_216O.263618.OPN.COA.PDF
Post Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:07 am 
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Josh Freeman
F L I N T O I D

Thanks for the link!
Post Wed Jan 03, 2007 7:54 am 
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Ted Jankowski
F L I N T O I D

Uhh The Picture was ON TOPIC but I guess you'd had to have read it to know that.

But thanks for the link!
Post Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:48 am 
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4now
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quote:
Ted Jankowski schreef:
Uhh The Picture was ON TOPIC but I guess you'd had to have read it to know that. !

The original thread title is "City Council back-pay."
I did read the text in the giant graphic you posted.
My perception is that it is a slam against the mayor
for many of the complaints you have about him ,
not council back pay. Continually throwing garbage
doesn't bring about the resolution this city so
desperately needs. -- 00SL2
Post Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:01 am 
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Ted J
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You can't fix a problem if you don't know what the problem is. Nor can you you put forth something resolution to something if you don't recognise that you even have the problem.

Ah, and yes it Slams the Mayor! Hopefully this does show the problem well enough that we recognise the problem and correct it next election.
Post Wed Jan 03, 2007 3:28 pm 
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